Okay, this is a bit of a follow-up question to: "2004 Toyota Avalon AT filter change or not?" from 4 days ago. Having learned that this transmission has a screen instead of a filter which does not need to be changed I now have questions regarding the DIY procedure. I have watched multiple online videos and everyone has a slightly different approach which I am trying to piece together to formulate my own DIY. Some make it seem like rocket science stating that if you have never done it before, it may best be left to a professional. But when I step back and consider that a drain and fill is basically the same as draining and filling the motor oil, I don't see the mystery unless I am missing something.?
Things I do know: 1. Use genuine Toyota Dextron III fluid (according to the owner's manual) which the Toyota Dealership has in stock. 2. Typically the drain and fill fluid capacity is 5.0 quarts but check first to make sure the ATF level is at full and then measure the amount that drains out. 3. Warm the fluid to the lower level of operating temperature by driving a short distance for enhanced drain flow. 4. The drain plug requires a 10mm Allen/hex bit socket. 5. Use a new crush washer when replacing. 6. Refill using a narrow funnel accessing the transmission dipstick orifice, pouring slowly to prevent backup in the small diameter tube.
What I don't know: 1. Some say after refilling with fresh fluid to have the front wheels free to move having used jack stands and cycle through each gearshift position several times each. 2. Others say to do the same procedure with tires on the ground in idle. 3. Some say to increase idle to 2,000 rpm as you cycle through the gears. 4. An older video of our hero Scotty he says to simply drive it after refilling. 5. Should the new fluid level be checked with engine warmed up and running, with it warmed up and not running or with it off and cold?
So the latter is what I have questions about. The drain and fill procedure seems pretty straight forward, unless I am missing something. Maybe I should have my hat on back'erds as I work on it.?
Any input or clarifications are appreciated. Thank you.
Use genuine Toyota Dextron III fluid
"Genuine Toyota Dexron III?" That's a laugh! Dexron is a GM formula, and GM stopped licensing Dexron III ages ago. However it is still being produced by companies like Valvoline and even Super-Tech (WalMart brand made by Warren Petroleum).
Any good brand of Dexron III (or Dex/Merc as it is frequently called) will do just fine. Typically about $20 or so for a gallon at WalMart. If you buy "Genuine Toyota Dexron" you'll very likely be overpaying for fluid that Toyota buys from a major oil company and just slaps their label on it.
Or, you could elect to use Dexron VI which is supposed to be backward-compatible with the earlier formulations for transmission use only. (However I doubt that GM tested the stuff in my car's ZF 4HP18 transmission so I continue to use Dexron III.)
I believe you're overthinking things a bit here. I've always warmed the trans so contaminants will flow out when draining the old fluid. Then I put in approximately the same amount of fluid as came out. Warm the car to operating temperature, engage forward and reverse gears. Then check fluid level, adding more if needed. (Drain some out if over filled.) Road test and check level again. I've done this for decades with numerous vehicles. There's not a lot to it.
@chucktobias Thanks, Chuck! Yeah...my bad. The owner's manual states, "Toyota Genuine ATF D-II or DEXRON III (DEXRON-II)". Not "Genuine Toyota Dexron III" as I stated. But hey, at least you got a laugh out of it.
@avalon04 "D-II" appears to be Dexron II. (Not really a surprise.) My car actually specifies that but Dexron III works perfectly in it and is easier to find.
https://www.nakabc.co.jp/english/genuine-motor-oil/toyota-genuine-oil/toyota-genuine-at-fluid-d-ii/
https://toyota-highway.com/Transmission_Fluid.aspx
@chucktobias After further research since posting this particularly to the recommenations that were provided by this community, I think that the Dexron III is the most appropriate ATF to use for my drain and fill as that is the fluid currently in my transmission therefore I would not be mixing a different new fluid with the D-III that would remain in the transmission. And the D-II and D-III have kept this baby running and shifting smoothly since it's manufacture in December of 2003 and with 30K mile servicing. But I appreciate all of the responses as they help me to learn more as I have more ideas and opinions to investigate and research. So, thanks again for your advice.
@avalon04 Toyota has certainly used a bewildering array of transmission fluids over the years. (Back in my day we just had Type "A" and Type "F"!)
But I would agree, if Dexron III is what's in there now, has worked well for you, and you're doing just a partial fluid change probably best to stick with it.
I know that Dexron VI is objectively better in a lot of ways but my transmission was not designed for it and as I said was probably not tested by GM for compatibility. I also note that GM issued a TSB stating that Dexron VI is not to be substituted for the earlier versions in applications other than transmissions; it is not to be used in power steering or other hydraulic systems.
@chucktobias In my research I came across a link on ToyotaNation forum detailing the history of Automatic Transmission Fluids presented by professor John Kelly with Weber State University. It is a 5-part series. I have included the link for the introduction part 1. Hopefully you will find it be informative as well as interesting. This fellow just may be the Automatic Transmission Fluid Geek.... perhaps the uncle of Lake Speed, Jr. the Motor Oil Geek. ( :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV-ri4rOHRI
I thought that seemed familiar, I linked to the same ATF history series back in 2024!
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/can-dextron-3-deteriorate-on-store-shelves/#post-319175
@chucktobias Yeah, I had a feeling that you may be acquainted with this fellow. Great series.
has a screen instead of a filter which does not need to be changed I now have questions regarding the DIY procedure
Here is the Toyota procedure for replacing the valve body (not that you should remove it) and pan. But it describes inspecting for wear shavings and replacing the strainer.
Things I do know: 1. Use genuine Toyota Dextron III fluid
Dex 3 is obsolete. I would use the newest Dex 6 . It's backwards compatible, and is a synthetic fluid with higher performance requirements. It has better heat and wear characteristics, and vastly outlasts the older formulations.
As
have the front wheels free to move
no. That just sounds like added risk with zero benefit.
Some say to increase idle to 2,000 rpm as you cycle through the gears
Nah. Idle is all that's needed to circulate fluid initially. Then drive it properly.
Should the new fluid level be checked with engine warmed up and running, with it warmed up and not running or with it off and cold?
Toyota specifications and procedure how to check and set the AT fluid level.
As others have said, make sure you cycle through ALL the shifter positions stopped with the parking break on and wheel chocks, pausing several seconds on each one. Then drive the car, again using each gear position. Make sure you get fast enough to use the highest gear. Then check the fluid.level again.
@imperator Thanks Joe for all of your procedural input it will definitely come in handy. From what you stated, Dexron 6 may be backwards compatible with D-III but with the D-6 being a synthetic fluid I am concerned that it may not be appropriate to mix it with the D-III conventional fluid that will remain in my transmission during a drain and fill.
mixing it is fine
Sounds like the folks in the videos you watched are severely OCD.Any input or clarifications are appreciated.
Have the car at operating temp(drive around a bit) before starting your service. Use only T-IV fluid, you'll need 3-4 qts to refill what comes out. I personally never used anything but the dipstick to check mine.. just be careful not to overfill (by checking the dipstick each time you add some back) Yeah, shift through all the gear positions slowly to ensure no air pockets & plenty of lubrication. Once you're comfortable the level is good, drive it a couple miles and check the level again. Check your driveway later for spotting. This is much easier than you think!
@hixster Hey Hixster. Thank you for your input. I just watched a video that was posted on toyota nation . com regarding Toyota Automatic Transmission history which you might find interesting and informative. Especially pertaining to ATF Type T-IV beginning at time stamp 23:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t73jM6mT8sU&t=1399s
@avalon04 nice video. Interestingly, the aftermarket boys apparently have no problem labeling fluids which are not compatible.. as if they were compatible. Sad.
Your transmission has Dex 3 in it???
@hixster I'm glad that you liked it. This guy professor John Kelly is very knowledgeable and interesting. I just watched part 1 which is the intro to his ATF History series and now have started on part 2.
And yes, I have Toyota ATF D-III and have decided to stick with it. As I mentioned to Chuck Tobias since this fluid is the original and the manufacturer's recommended replacement fluid both in the owner's manual as well as on the dipstick, and has performed without issue since the vehicle's manufacture in December of 2003, following the 30K mile replacement recommendation, I don't want to chance trying something "new and improved". ( : But I appreciate everyone's comments and advice as it provided more information for me to research and opportunity to learn.