Well if Toyota had transmission problems within one year of ownership that says a lot about the "Dynamic Shift" transmission. I think the results are actually solid and make a lot of sence, the only thing I disagree with is MINI being way ranked higher than kia and ford - Sure MINIs don't breakdown as often, but the repair costs can get insane on those...

I agree, but I'm not sure on a car being made by Hyundai-KIA automatically being bellow average, cause what car makers except for Toyota (/Lexus), Mazda and Honda (/Acura) are better than Hyundai? I honestly can't think of any.
Reliability wise, I'd rather have a Hyundai over a VW, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Fiat, Nissan, BMW, Tesla, Ford, Chevy, Dodge and so on - We have gotten to the point that they are above average because the rest have gotten so bad.
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As scotty said, "... use high quality steel on their vehicles and lower costs, it's also why Hyundai cars are less expensive than Toyota or Honda without effecting quality" (±1:20 in the video bellow) "all in all, we can say that both Hyundai and Kia are quite unique brands that produce good quality cars" (±3:30 in the video bellow)
https://youtu.be/i4HzCHPRD5k

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Also personally I'm looking for a small SUV, and the best option over Toyota's unproven and complex CVT and Dynamic force engine, and Hondas with the problematic Earth dream engines and CVT transmissions - a Kia with a simple and reliable 1.4L MPI and a simple and reliable 6 speed auto, seems to be the best choice. it also handles better (IMO - this is very debatable) and it's also 20% cheaper.

I don't think we've seen too many other auto makers aside from Hyundai/Kia that have such a high incidence of fires, or of catastrophic engine failures well before 100K miles. They also seem to be even worse than others in weaseling out of warranty coverage.

A friend of mine showed up just a few days ago in a surprise visit, the proud owner of a new Kia Soul. I didn't say anything negative and hope it works out for him. Being an elderly driver who doesn't do a lot of driving any more it may well be all right. (Not to be morbid but he's old enough not to be too concerned with what that vehicle will be like 10 years from now. When you get older your concept of "long term" changes. I'm getting there...)

I've been seeing that a lot, Ford's EcoBoost's blowing head-gaskets before even 50k miles, Chevy's EcoTech 1.4L requiring rebuilds before 60k miles, Toyota's European MMT transmission burning up it's friction material each 40k miles, the Fiat-Honda ZF 9 speed transmission lasting about 90k miles on average, Mitsubishi and Nissan CVTs do tend to have catastrophic failures before 100k miles if you're a spirited driver, Mercedes' 7G-DCT and Volvo's MPS7 (same transmission, different branding) are not great at all at higher millages. also all of the people on this forum with issues with Honda CVTs and on the internet I saw quite a few people complaining about injector issues before 30k-40k miles (a guy on this from recently posed that he had all 4 injectors (over $300 each) fail at 25k miles on a 2018 Accord with the EarthDreams engine).
People like to crap on Hyundai-Kia (I remember when BBC's TopGear (their credibility is a whole different story but) reviewed the 2nd gen Accent they called it "less fun than drowning") but realistically? Conventional automatics are great, MPI engines are solid (GDI and T-GDI are questionable but no more than their competitors)
Scotty has been saying for years "they're not great, they're decent" and that's honestly what I've been feeling towards them, just nice little inexpensive cars, better than anything domestic or European.

he didn't actually know if the injectors failed. All he knows is that he got a trouble light, and what other people told him.
In my real world experience, Kia/Hyundai are exceptionally bad. And the huge recalls are also a testament to this.

On the topic of that Honda, I did research online and asked mechanics and injectors failing seems to be a widespread things on Honda made around 2016-2018.
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When it comes to recalls, Honda recalled 1.4m cars last year, Toyota recalled 3.2m last year for fuel pumps and they had other recalls like oil consumption and valve springs in the past - it's hardly an indication of how well a thing is made anymore.
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back to Hyundai, That doesn't match my experience at all, they ARE NOT amazing, they are NOT better than the Japanese but they are better than most cars.
What new what larger SUV (other than the RAV4, CX-5, C-RV and their variants) is better than the Hyundai Tucson while being in the same price category...
What new car large family car (other than the Camry, Mazda6 and Accord) is better than the Hyundai Sonata while being in the same price category...
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I have no doubt that a 4Runner is much better than a SantaFe, or that a Corolla beats the Forte but, when it's an Accent against a US Yaris? Sonata vs a Passat? Tucson vs an Equinox? Kona vs a Renegade or an EcoSport?... they're just better than most of these.
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Also, unlike the Japanese, Hyundai-Kia don't really make deathtraps anymore...
US Yaris / Mazda2 - has 0 braking ability
https://youtu.be/O-DYmGPvw4E
Mazda CX-3 having absolutely 0 control ability at just 47 mph.
https://youtu.be/mZRWiKIERic?t=21

most cars are not notorious for becoming fireballs.
Just look at the kind of crap coming out of their factories that they are trying to pass as an engine:
shoddy casting

shoddy quality parts

You don't have to listen to me. Take it from their own people!

SIX MILLION cars recalled for fire risk in only the last five years. And millions more still under investigation. Can you comprehend those numbers?

Is that anything new though? Here's a Ford, one of the most common engines in the UK, these Ford EcoBoost engines all end up pouring coolant into the engine oil - also funnily enough the oil passage on the head gasket tends to blow and leak all over the place.

But maybe Ford isn't a good example when it comes to poor engineering, after all they're the same guys that managed to build cars that ±30% of which required over 3 repairs in 2-3 years.

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speaking of mega recalls, only speaking about the last 10-13 years. @mmj

Toyota recalled 7.5 million cars for their air bags sending metal fragments through your skull (I don't care what supplier they used, the same way I do not care what supplier Hyundai used for their 12V sockets - it's on them to make sure their cars are safe),
Toyota recalled 4 (3.95) million cars for the seat suddenly sliding backwards during operation causing accidents, and another 4 million cars for faulty throttle pedals sticking and causing accidents, and then another 1.9 million for hybrids suddenly shutting down during operations.
and many more cases like this. oh and the ongoing recall for 5.8 million cars due to engine stalling cause of their fuel pumps being crappy. or when they had to recall all of their high end V8s due to poor quality valve springs (but that was kind of minor, only 270k).
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Poor quality parts and design defects are also common on Toyotas. The early GR series - None of these have compression on cylinder 5. AZ owners had issues with oil consumption and so did the 2000-2006 Corollas that had the 1.8L ZZ engine, known for burning tons of oil and going out way too early, in 2009 they on the next gen, again, exceptionally high oil consumption. On European 2008-2009 MMT failures (all of those got recalled for TCM issues, can't find an exact number but all MMT variants), the gearbox got canceled after 1.5 years. and later on the 2014 we got the CVT transmissions that aren't that great either.
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Fact is that they're not great, but compared to others - they are above average. If you don't believe me ask petrol Škoda/SEAT owners how much oil their cars consume at 60k miles, or if their mechatronic was rebuilt (the oil pressure gets pushed up against a slab on which the oil circuit board is drilled onto, the result is obviously that it cracks at the seams as early as 40k miles even on very expensive cars.)
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The thing is that at least Hyundai-Kia offers a good warranty and take responsibility for their screwups, (it's not like VW that marketed the EA888 and after it turned out that it's total crap - and went on to have another 3 generation where everyone knows it's crap and yet VW continues to screw costumers over). When Hyundai had an issue with engine knock on the Theta - they provided lifetime warranties for the affected engines.
I feel that Hyundai-Kia doesn't want to screw over their costumers on purpose - they don't offer unsafe cars anymore (unlike Mazda that offers 4 star rating cars, or extremely flawed designs like the new Mazda3 or the Hondas that can't reach operating temperature) and for most of them safety is standard and not a luxury and again with 10 yeas of warranty, It just doesn't matter as much.

Yes we know about the airbag recalls. But Takata screwed those up, not Toyota. Hyundai/Kia screwed up their own engines. All Toyota has to do is change suppliers. What is Hyundai going to do? Fire all their employees?

I don't give a crap about stalling fuel pumps and sliding seats. I care about getting trapped in a burning vehicle.

Mother who watched son burn to death in SUV fire joins calls for answers from Kia, Hyundai:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/calls-for-answers-from-hyundai-kia-following-recalls-1.5200078

And don't forget that Toyota sells A LOT more vehicles than Hyundai/Kia, so of course a recall will affect many more. It's the recall RATES that matter.

And Hyundai does not take responsibility. We've seen it time and again. They do everything they can to blow off customers. (like their oil burning "tests"). They'll just tell you it's normal. Don't even mention their crappy warranty. Even if they did honor it. Used Hyundai owners get ZERO warranty.

@mmj, that CBC story is about as horrific as it gets. Note that the ending paren needs to be stripped off for the link to work.

thanks.fixed.

You know what the really messed up thing is? Kyundai have known about this problem for a some time, and have been "downplaying" it. (read between the lines). They are now facing a flood of lawsuits from owners, and the government is investigating them for criminal negligence. So please, no bs about "take responsibility for their screwups".

And I hope you have good home insurance, or park far away, because you aren't even safe while you sleep.

Here's a an Elantra destroying a 100 year old house and almost killing the family inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0ZEXcBO42Q

@MMJ Well on the Hyundai fire hazard issue, what you said isn’t true, (the same way that you said “it’s not Toyota it’s Takata"), it wasn’t Hyundai it was MANDO systems’ ABS pump (Mando is the supplier for most US market Hyundai models). And as I said I don’t care the slightest bit if that’s the manufacturer, a subsidiary, or a private supplier – they sold the car, they are fully responsible for what’s going on with it.
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But by your logic, then Toyota’s pedal sticking to the floor, because those parts are OEM from Toyota and are designed and made by Toyota, also unlike the Hyundai fire issue, here there are fatalities. Also Speaking of not owning up to mistakes, Toyota was fined $16,000,000 for their slow response to the accelerator problem. People died accidents were caused, Toyota didn’t want to replace parts so they tried to blame it on the carpeting.
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https://youtu.be/KHGSWs4uJzY
Here’s the last moments of a Lexus owner with a stuck accelerator pedal trying to call 911 for help. And as a recap no one died with the Hyundai issue, they also had a reasonably quick response.
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Also, with the seats, Drivers getting slammed into the dashboard in accidents or sliding from the controls causing accidents, how is that any better than a fire hazard – First of all no one has died from this and, don’t all US mail (USPS) trucks have this issue?
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Well, speaking of production numbers and rates, in 2013 Hyundai was the 2nd biggest car maker, now they’re 3rd or 4th. They still make a lot of vehicles and not much less than Toyota – Toyotas recall rates have been 100% of Priuses, 100% of UR-series engines, 100% of frag-airbags, 100% of MMT transmissions suddenly going into neutral.
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What’s also not true is that Hyundai are the only ones screwing up on engines, look at the Toyota ZZ, ZR, AZ, UR, GR – all of these are so poorly made, have had a lot of issues and Toyota didn’t bother giving a proper warranty on those.
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Also, speaking of stories of death, here’s this about ford.

And Ford’s handling of the “death wobble” isn’t that great either, for how many years has been this going on without them doing a recall OR ANYTHING?
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Well, what you’re saying about the warranty – that’s just your legislature and the fact that lobbying is legal in the way it is. I’ve never seen untransferable warranty, or denied warranty cases in my life, car companies don’t and dealers don’t want to get fined, have licenses revoked or to go under investigation.

@mmj
Why Toyota isn't held accountable for knowingly building deathtraps with fragmentation airbags, seats that'll slam you against the dash and accelerator paddles that'll launch you forwards and get stuck? not to forget that their European Pickup trucks are getting recalled for catching fire due to short circuits (crappy battery wire insulations - this is a lot of vehicles in Europe and yet Toyota managed to keep this silent)
Why Honda and GM gets away with engines that make Lada look like an engine engineering powerhouse? Honda claims the turbo, high compression ratios and GDI are all needed to comply with regulations, when the LADA Vesta has none of that and yet it fully complies with Euro6.
And why isn't there an investigation into Mazdas being unstable and having no brakes?
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IToyota, Honda, Ford and GM all spend tens of millions of dollars on lobbying annually, while Hyundai - does not.
Hyundai spent only $800k (and only 600k € total in Europe) on lobbying this year, while Toyota spent $4.5 million only on question one in Massachusetts, and other ridiculous sums frankly just against the consumer.
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While Toyota, Honda, Ford and GM will pay publications and media to hide their screwups <edited by moderator> and sponsor them to blow up stores about competitors - Hyundai just doesn't do that, not even on a 1/10th of their scale...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7coShFyl_yE&t=73s
As funny as it is, they fail to note that Toyota often locks the shift lever - so good luck going to N, that the brakes are only marginally stronger than the engine (so expect a stopping distance of a mile or so) + with their Prius, good luck getting the E-brake to work (it's electronic), good luck turning off the engine (because of that stupid button) and even better luck coming to a stop with no power assisted brakes.
https://youtu.be/5IdJqG07orA

@mmj

"if by "all" you mean a few hundred (about 0.3% of them) , sure. These trucks have been on the road around 30 years and have outlived their expectancy, and the postal service ran out of money and stopped maintaining them. I don't see how this is in any way connected to the topic."

400 have already burned down in the last couple of years, and one catches fire every 5 days. I'm not sure about your assessment that "a few hundred" are effected, a bit more have already burned down, there's no reason to assume that this rate will be constant if it's age related.

"I only care about how I am treated"

Well looking at the sheer complexity on new Toyotas and how not repair friendly they are (try working on new Toyotas and see how it's really not what I'd call "DIY friendly"), As I see it Hyundai-Kia treat the owner better, they don't go taking down repair manuals or lobby against your right to repair your own vehicle.

"Why have 90% of HMG owners I know had engine or tranny replacements (often more than one) within a few years of manufacture?"

That doesn't match my experience and what I've been seeing. the only bad design I saw is the D7GF1/UF1, they just shift way too rough. the common repairs are the clutch packs and dual mass flywheels (basically like a DSG but ain't smooth) - usually replaced during the warranty.

The rest of their gearboxes, especially conventional automatics? at worst solenoids or when those are ignored friction packs (in all cases that's on completely burned fluid with the owners not being aware they should replace their ATF)).

Scotty also has been saying Hyundai-Kia automatics are generally solid.

"what do you mean? It's pretty public knowledge, isn't it?"

And so they made some crappy engines. Don't buy them. What do you want?

How is public knowledge going to help the millions of people who already own them? the minimum a car maker should do is extend the warranty - Like Hyundai-Kia has been doing when they have been screwing up. Unlike Toyota that just adjusted the oil consumption section to state that "1L/100KM is normal" or to lower their vehicles lifespan to "200,000 km" as they did with the Corolla in Europe.

"The only reason people buy them is because they are impressed with shiny gadgets"

That's not true, I've had a Hyundai subcompact before, In my family there's a Kia Niro, and I have a Kia small SUV on order - and gadgets aren't the reason.

The Kia Niro for example, it goes 70mpg on a good day and at worst 50mpg in sports mode and cruise with lane keeping. Compared to a Corolla (30/38 mpg) that's about 925 gallons a year saved (other Hybrids I had were only slightly better than regular petrols). Basically in my case, the car fully pays for it self in 3 years in fuel cost savings alone, and I don't feel like it a compromise on anything. (Euroncap 91% Crashworthiness, 81% Safety Assist, IIHS maximum scores in categories and good performance of optional safety systems)

And the Kia Stonic tiny crossover I have on order for, has excellent crash score tests (Euroncap 93% score, pretty much unrivaled) , Drives incredibly easy, is probably the simplest new car to work on, and has an incredibly proven powertrain (G4LC engine is great, the A6GF1 (not DCT like most people buy) gearbox is one of the simplest transmissions out there with good reliability, simple and easy service and even a dipstick) for better safety, 20% less upfront and thousand saved in maintenance - I don't care if its going to last me 10 years or 15 years (like a Toyota 3 cylinder probably won't, considering I also drive at most 9k miles a year, and as of recently mostly highway so 90k to 135k over what I assume I'll keep it for)

All Hyundai-Kia cars I've had I got because they either make incredible financial sense, or because they don't have space age tech (US models might be different) - I'd rather have a car with a 6 speed auto and a conventional engine than an unproven CVT that costs thousands to service during it's life and an engine that seems like a total mess (referring here to the Yaris Cross and Honda HR-V)

"Well, what you’re saying about the warranty – that’s just your legislature
- False. That is HMG's policy stated clearly in the owner's manual,(..) all other manufacturers have transferable warranties."

That's only because it's legal in the US.

where I live there's the consumer protection act sets clear standards towards what a warranty should include (for example, they can't call a powertrain warranty that unless it includes everything that has to do with the powertrain, that a warranty must be transferable, all parts should be available on sale from the dealer for at least 10 years, and so on), and there are clear precedents as far as lemons, refusal to fix and so on - most of them where there's a refusal to repair a vehicle they get fined the MSRP of the car for each case where there was a misrepresentation, refusal to repair and so on (like in this latest fine), unrelated it i's a used dealer, dealer, or the car company.

I've never was refused a warranty claim, not by Hyundai nor by Ford and all repairs I've got done at the dealer got warranted for at least 90 days (as required by law) - Why would they want to pay out the MSRP of my car to the Gov, isn't it simpler to comply with rules. When the legislature is clear on not letting car companies screw with their costumers, they don't.

"not great but decent until a certain millage", because quite honestly, if you don't drive over 15k a year, and you aren't buying used cars with huge milages already on it - it should be fine. They're definitely better than average, they don't turn into money pits like VWs and don't require dealer tools for repairs.

Sorry but I am going to go with my experience and what Scotty has been saying.

https://youtu.be/RWpIM5haeLE?t=46

Bucket 'O Salt.

Lol ok that's true

Yeah, a grain of salt is needed, but overall, the specifics like Mazda3 AC issues, Corolla hatchback transmission issues (it's their regular euro spec CVT transmission, if I'm not mistaken) and EVs having issues not with the powertrains but with electronic bells and whistles braking seem to match what's actually going on IRL.

@itwt wasn’t on purpose, but the site’s formatting has gone bad now…