Hello,
I have a 2009 Acura TSX with ~161,000 miles on it, that has a somewhat loud exhaust. I took the car to the dealership, and they stated where the drive exhaust and muffler attaches, the gasket between the two is deteriorating. (You can clearly see a hole). I had this gasket replaced a little over a year ago at a smaller repair shop for about $100. The problem according to the dealership is that the connection and bolts are completely rusted, and they recommended that the entire exhaust be replaced. To note, I am not disagreeing that the exhaust is rusted and needs to be replaced, I have a video from the tech showing and detailing all the connections. The car still passed safety and emissions. The recommendation for the exhaust fix is
"EXHAUST PIPE RUSTED THROUGH AT DRIVER MUFFLER
FLANGE. EXHAUST IS EXTREMELY RUSTY, SUGGEST
ENTIRE EXHAUST INCLUDING MANIFOLD CONVERTER BE
REPLACED
Correction: MANIFOLD CONVERTER, SHIELDS, A-PIPE, UNDER
CONVETER, B-PIPE AND DRIVER MUFFLER. ALL GASKETS/
HARDWARE"
$4698.71
I bought the car for around $6500. I have already put in a new AC, done any and all maintenance recommended by the dealership, put in two new control arms, and car has premium new tires. Needless to say, I don't want to get rid of it, as I have probably spent more maintaining the car than what I paid for it, which I am okay to do so, as it's still cheaper than a new car. This repair, however, is a lot more expensive than others. (There is also another repair needed, "BOTH REAR TOE ECCENTRICS SIEZED WITHIN CONTROL
ARM BUSHING, WILL NEED CUT OUT. SUGGEST BOTH REAR TOE ARMS/BOLTS" which is quoted for $1497.65 As the bushings seem fine, I am going to ignore this fix for now as long as my tire tread isn't too bad and I absolutely need an alignment.)
My question is, should I replace the exhaust. I called another shop, Dobbs, and they stated they would honestly be around the same price as they need to use OEM parts anyways or it would throw off my sensors and could trigger a faulty check engine light. My father-in-law recommended I just let the exhaust be loud until it gets too bad (ie. cop would pull me over), as being loud doesn't hurt the car. I know you state hondas are vehicles that can last with good maintenance, but so far this Acura has needed quite a bit of "maintenance". Is it worth putting in the money to get this fixed? Or should I just let it rust out and get rid of it after. Or is there an alternative to this problem?
here is image of the problem in question
outside of those two joints, the rest of exhaust still looks really good. If it were me I would just weld those gaps shut.
@imperator You think so? Good to know, this gives me more hope. I didn't think it overall looked horrible, but the Tech had me worried. But again, it passed emissions, which means that expensive catty is still working. I feel as though all exhaust connections/bolts are going to be wore down if not from the heat alone. That would be my best option if I could just do that, although I don't know much about welding LOL (besides some sweating some plumbing copper pipes for my water heater) I do know some welder friends though! Thanks
@utopiandream It sure looks to me like those guys were trying to rip you off. That car looks really solid.
@imperator @chucktobias Went up to local auto store and got some JB Exhaust Joint weld for about $10. (JB products have been a lifesaver for me for many projects) I'm going to clean up area and try to seal the gap. I'll try to remember reply back after some days to see how it holds up. New exhaust would definitely be better, but a $10 gap fix would be righteous.
@utopiandream That stuff is likely to be very temporary, though I have not tried that particular product. (I think the long-term solution is having an exhaust shop do some welding.) Let us know how you make out.
I think that's a waste of time. It'll leak again. I would take a grinder and cut off all the rotten bits and clean the rust and old gasket residue so the two parts mate together tightly. Then pay an exhaust guy $100 to run a weld bead around it.
I know you state hondas are vehicles that can last with good maintenance, but so far this Acura has needed quite a bit of "maintenance".
That is to be expected with a 16-year-old car, especially if you're in a rust-belt area which appears to be the case. If you want something that doesn't need much if any repair work look at new or later model used cars.
@chucktobias Thanks for the input, Chuck, but you didn't really answer my question of whether it's worth to replace the exhaust or to get another used car. I suppose you didn't like my light jab at the expenses I paid for this car, maybe you have some brand loyalty. When I quoted Maintenace, I was not referring to replacing the rusted exhaust, I was referring to other multiple things I had to replace since I've owned the car that have already added up. I am contemplating whether or not this is a money pit. (Like buying a used BMW or Benz where the cost to repair doesn't make sense) To note, this isn't my first car, nor is it my first "old" car, and this car has occurred more cost than others. As an example, a 2006 ford 500 that I got around 330,000 miles on, that had original exhaust, control arms, and brake calipers. I personally don't care the brand, nor do I think it's unexpected for an older car to have rust but wanted to know if replacing an exhaust that costs dang near the cost of the car was worth it as this point.
Stating if you want something that doesn't need repair work to get a new car isn't useful to me. I'm asking if this car is worth the repair.
you didn't really answer my question of whether it's worth to replace the exhaust or to get another used car.
You are asking the impossible, there is no way to answer that from here. You have to evaluate the overall condition of the car, its likely remaining useful life, and the cost to repair it versus the cost of a good replacement vehicle which, if used, may develop its own costly problems.
For any major work you should also seek other opinions on what is really needed.
@chucktobias Not impossible on a mechanic forum where others have worked on or seen cars like this. You are not legally liable for what happens lol, I am looking for suggestion. Chuck, if this was YOUR car, a 2009 Acura, TSX, with 161,000, that needs an exhaust, would you recommend getting the exhaust replaced or would you personally replace the car?
If it was MY car I'd be doing the repairs myself for well under the amount you're talking about. (Though I don't do partial exhaust work I have bolted up complete exhaust systems quite a few times over the years.) In fact I drive a car that is over a decade older than yours and has well over double the mileage and have performed needed repairs myself at minimal cost. So from my perspective you are driving a car that is just about broken in. I personally don't get rid of cars until the next owner is the scrapyard.
Now in your case it might be helpful to see some photos of the undercarriage, particularly the area that you're told is seized up (presumably due to rust), the rockers, and the unibody frame rails. If the thing is a rust bucket I'd get rid of it regardless. If you're in a position to buy a much newer car which will probably have fewer problems you certainly might consider doing that. But, if you buy another car that's around 16 years old you may well wind up having to repair things like the AC and other issues all over again.
@chucktobias Gotcha, thank you! This was helpful. I don't think I can upload videos on here, (or at least I don't know how), but I do have the entire video of the tech under the car showing the undercarriage. Either way, I'll have to re watch it a couple times and take better notice or just go under the car myself.
The "carfax" does show it originally came from Northeast, so I'm assuming that's where the rust came from. (I'm out in Missouri)
Good to know, I'm not one to give up on things, for example I have a riding lawnmower, JD stx-38 that is over 30 years old, but I have never repaired/replaced a car's exhaust before. After seeing your and Fisher's reply, I'm back on the fence now.
As an example, if that were my car I could get a complete Walker exhaust system kit (a decent brand) for that car from rockauto.com for a little over $700 and bolt it up myself. The economics of old car ownership and when to let go of a vehicle are very different depending on whether you're able to do your own repair work.
There are instructions for photos and videos in the topic "READ THIS FIRST - Forum Guide" pinned near the top of the main page. The short answer is to put it up on a file sharing site and provide a link here. For posting videos youtube is preferred. Those are the only videos that Scotty will view if he answers a topic here or in his videos.
@chucktobias Thank you, that is an awesome suggestion, I would rather try that out and fail than anything else! So btw if you are curious, here is image of the problem in question, and also the video of the tech examining the undercarriage. You'll notice at end he mentions some oil leaks from filter and crank shaft, I had that repaired at that point.
https://imgur.com/a/vwQnEFL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ4CzCerUVc
I'm not really seeing the need for a nearly $4700 exhaust system here. I'd get a quote from a good exhaust specialty shop. Those kind of guys can work wonders with a torch. Note that Walker exhaust would not include the exhaust manifold which apparently has a converter built-in and they claim needs to be replaced. I really doubt that. As far as those suspension bolts I'd bet they would respond to the "heat wrench" though you'd have to replace the rubber bushings. Overall the car looks solid underneath, not a junker.
@chucktobias Thanks Chuck, that's what I needed to know. I apologize for not posting the video sooner as it definitely sheds light on the situation. Agreed, I can deal with the seized bolts, although they are a pain.
should I just let it rust out and get rid of it after.
Well. here's the deal. KBB has an approximate value of your car around $5800 private party, trade in around $3500 in the other car. From a financial standpoint, it doesn't make sense to do a nearly $5000 repair job for a car that is maybe with $6,000 if you can find the right buyer, thus, I would find something different. Now. You may have sentimental value. to the car. if so then I would say find an independent mechanic who can give you a second opinion (See FAQ for referrals) and he might also charge you less than the dealership.
@fishingandcarsenthusiast123 Thanks Fishing, yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing. It looks like financially it doesn't sense to go ahead with the repair, so I should either ride it out, or sell and have someone else decide.