Hi Scotty,
Recently purchased a 2021 Subaru Forester. After watching a number of your videos I wonder if I have made a mistake.
All this chatter on CVT has me worried. I am retired and take very good care of my vehicles. I live in Wisconsin and like the AWD and visibility that the Forester offers. Yet hearing so many bash Subarus has kept me up at night.
Should I sell and buy something like a Toyota.
Please Advise
Thanks
Madison
You should be fine for 100,000-150,000 miles or more as long as you don't tow or otherwise abuse the transmission. Also change the fluid regularly, ignoring Subaru's claim that it's "lifetime" fluid.
Yes.
Does this "yes" come from a mechanics background ? 1 out of 5 drivers in Madison are in Subarus. Are you saying they are all misguided? CVTS are in toyotas as well. Guess I was looking for something to back up this "yes"
I'm sure that the 20% of Madison drivers are familiar with the Subaru service center waiting room. Yes, it comes from a mechanic's background and an ability to compare them to other better engineered, designed and constructed vehicles.
I just disagree, Toyota also makes mistakes - and there’s plenty of room to make them with the new RAV4 (As it seems the poster is talking about new/new-ish cars).
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But do you or anyone know what to watch out for on the new RAV4? With the high-tech DynamicForce engines, and with the “Direct Shift” automatics / “Direct shift” CVTs?
All of that insanely complex technology on a new platform seems like it can easily turn into a disaster.
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So far what you should watch out for on the RAV4 is exceptionally bad handling (on some model years), complexity performing basic maintenance,… the rest? No one yet knows…
https://youtu.be/VtQ24W_lamY?t=32
Toyota claims they have fixed it, but testing on the new RAV4 PHEV makes me doubt their cars drivability.
https://youtu.be/CLnaParvC_8
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But on the other hand, When it comes to new Foresters (with the same good old FB series boxer and Linetronic CVT). It shouldn’t fall apart for quite a while - it’s almost definitely is just better than a decade old RAV4.
https://youtu.be/X7xklEGnXTI?t=40s
also it seems to handle better, still no sports car and seems to be unpredictable - but it seems that it has a much lower chance of loosing control and injuring others / the owner.
Not a bad decision at all, forester is one of Subarus bread and butter vehicles. Listen, people don’t seem to get that the Japanese are taking CVTs seriously. Traditionally speaking the Japanese tend to fix problems as they come up with their vehicles. Subarus CVT has come a LONG way since the older ones. Change fluid every 30k mi and continue regular maintenance I have no doubt that Forester with the CVT can go 250k mi or more. Hopefully Subaru will continue improving the CVT. Luckily they are in cahoots with Toyota and that to me is a critical relationship to continue.
If you go to Portland, Oregon, most of the cars you will see are wither Subaru’s or RAV4’s. Seriously. I imagine the weather conditions may be similar to Wisconsin.
If it were a JATCO CVT I’d be worried. But with the Subaru, Toyota, or Honda CVT, I am not as concerned. I drive a Honda CRV 2015 regularly with a CVT at closing in on 100,000 miles, and everything is great so far with just basic maintenance.
Toyota, Honda, and Subaru, are usually quicker than most to react and fix things ASAP. The Subaru CVT problem was years ago. The newer ones should theoretically be up to muster.
If you want a little more certainty in your life, then yes, ditch the car with a CVT. But if there were any CVT I’d take a chance on, Subaru, Toyota, and Honda would be it.
The Subaru Forester isn’t a bad SUV - at all. With proper driving technique and maintenance they can go quite a long time before causing any issues.
As far as the engine - the 2.0L and 2.5L are solid. As long as you service it frequently, with the proper oil, and never overheat it - it can last a very long time. (the 2.0L is prone to some oil consumption, but I wouldn’t call it a major issue. Additionally the electronic throttles aren’t that well built but that’s IMO a minor issue)
The only real thing to keep in mind is the CVT transmission. Subaru’s CVTs aren’t the worst - but they’re typically weaker then conventional automatics and require special care.
Although Subaru claims their fluid is “lifetime” (like many other manufacturers), you still should replace the fluid every 30,000 miles (I’d suggest OEM fluid, but you should pick the correct one)
If the fluid isn’t changed frequently enough - what typically happens is the valve body going out at under 100k miles (but it’s roughly ($600 + labor + fluid change) so I guess it’s not the end of the world…)
But, If the owner doesn’t replace the valve body once the transmission once it begins to cause check-engine lights or drive oddly - the next things to go are friction packs, bearings and those require the transmission to get torn apart and rebuilt or replaced.
also on a CVT, you obviously do not want to race, tow or cause any internal slippage. (Especially avoid scenarios in which the car isn’t moving but the wheels are spinning - it’s possible to make a Korean CVT explode this way in just a few minutes 🤪)
this might be controversial, among those who refuse to view cars in an objective manner, but given what I’ve been seeing on the new Toyota Highlander (where the entire subframe needs to be dropped to do any transmission work - so just getting to the transmission can cost as much rebuilding a conventional automatic) - I think this Forester is better it.
what’s especially is concerning is the RAV4’s “CVT with a launch gear”, it’s way too new to judge - the only useful info I found so far (as far as it’s reliability) is a video on YouTube of a transmission repair shop disassembling it and giving their thoughts.
their conclusion was something like “a lot of small bearings, some parts match with jatco parts - they’ll probably require quite a few repairs down the line”
Toyota Launch gear CVT internals:
https://youtu.be/wjjbwJ6DhAk
it’s not in English - but I do believe there are subtitles.
Maybe a conventional automatic RAV4 can be more reliable but it’s transmission is quite new and it did have issues so you never know what exactly to expect…
so I just wouldn’t bother with it - a forester usually can go 100k-150k miles without major issues given proper maintenance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7U2pvTF7AM
Scotty's video on Subaru cars and their engine quality (first 2 minutes ish of the video).
@fjcruiser2014 that issue should be fixed in newer models According to Subaru USA. Also, I believe If your model has the issue Scotty was talking about, Subaru extended the warranty for the model years affected and make all the necessary repairs for free.
Scotty did explain about how they will try to avoid the repair (try to not accept fault for the issue) so I won't really trust that they would do all the repairs for free or at least without giving one a hard time. Also, in general he mentioned that Subaru is not known for building good quality engines. Again, it is each person's personal choice how to spend their money but given what I have learned from Scotty's videos I would personally take his advice and go for a Toyota.
The Subaru Forester is a pretty good SUV, as long as you take good care of it and keep up with the maintenance it can last quite some time. I have a soft spot for them, especially the modern ones from 2013-2018 with manual transmissions.
Also, the CVT transmissions are better than they used to be.
You made a good choice. Don’t tow and keep up with maintenance and you’ll be fine. Subaru’s are rough and loud, but long term reliability is above average.
I have a 2013 legacy 120k 4 cyl. Never any problems. Never did anything with fluid till after 100k when I started watching Scottie’s vids. Lifetime fluid is BS Subaru manuals in other countries have a fluid change interval.
see Mr. Subaru1387 on YouTube.
https://youtu.be/ZR3eZZcgoZ0
