Vehicle:
2016 Subaru Forester
91,xxx miles - 80k of which are highway miles
Problem - Dead CVT Trans - Dealer is trying to get Subaru to cover it otherwise they've quoted me $5.5k - $8k to replace it.
Question/ Background/ Looking for advice -
When the CVT Failed in the 2016 it really let loose. The car wouldn't get any real power and the front passenger side wheel was chattering / locking up. I am thankful it failed in town and not on the open highway as had it failed on the open highway depending on traffic I am not sure I'd be writing this post. However, this failure on a vehicle that I have owned since new and have meticulously maintained has me just floored. Given the value of the vehicle as compared to the potential repair bill short of doing the work myself it seems borderline not financially responsible to repair it. Especially considering the simple fact that based on everything I have read CVT's appear to be largely regarded as a throwaway part (at least by Subaru), and failures seem semi abundant which I take to mean there's no guarantee the repair will last either.
As noted above the dealer is trying to get Subaru to cover the Transmission. They have had the car for 2 weeks while trying to plead my case to Subaru. So presently there isn't anything I can really do to "fix" the issue I am simply in a holding pattern. However, I own multiple Subaru's all with the same CVT Transmission none of the vehicles have over 100k miles and given the severity of this issue I am extremely uncomfortable with the prospect of such astronomical repair bills so I am thinking it might be time for me to sort of "cut my losses" and move on.
So I guess my first question is:
1.) Are CVT Transmissions really as bad as this experience would seem to indicate? Or perhaps is this issue more indicative of a problem with Subaru? I can't imagine the general consumer being able to afford an $8k repair bill on a used vehicle. Especially a Vehicle that falls into the price range of a Subaru Forester.
2.) My Significant other drives roughly 30k miles per year and as such I need to keep a super reliable vehicle in the mix that can deal with high mileage. Something that fails under 100k and potentially comes with an $8k repair bill isn't something I can personally afford to own. In an effort to get away from a CVT Transmission while staying in a vehicle around the same size, and price range as the Subaru Forester I have narrowed the search down to either the Toyota Rav 4 AWD (with the 8 speed automatic) or the Toyota Tacoma 4WD (with the 4 Cylinder 6 speed automatic). Between these two choices which do you think in theory will have the least reliability problems, and in cases where there is a break down something that isn't going to wipe out my savings account to fix.
3.) Do you have any other suggestions aside from the afore mentioned vehicles? I live in Northern Ohio and as such I have to deal with all 4 seasons. Summer Driving is one thing. But due to my significant others commute and where she works I need something that will keep her as safe as possible in the winter.
Thanks for your time,
Clarification: was the transmission fluid ever changed on that CVT (if so, when)? My guess is No since Subaru claims it is lifetime and most people end up not doing it. But just confirm. Thank you.
In order...
1. YES. They SUCK. Doesn't matter the make, they are terrible and if you have multiple vehicles equipped with them, the best advice you'll get here is to SELL THEM ALL. And when you replace them, avoid anything equipped with such garbage. Right now, it's a good market to try and get rid of about anything, so I would suggest starting with going online and getting an offer from Carvana or givemethevin.com. Both will be higher (likely substantially) than KBB, Carmax, etc. But try them all. Try not to trade at a dealer where you're buying as this just adds more things for you to have to negotiate on (and gives the dealer more opportunities to screw you over).
2. Rav4. Based on what you currently have and your stated needs, this is a no-brainer to me. The 8-speed auto seems to be the only thing the jury is still out on, but I have faith that Toyota has probably done a good job.
3. I would add the Highlander to your mix. Also, the Honda CR-V. I can think of a couple of others that people here might disagree on, but given that the Tacoma and Rav4 appear to be in your price range, I see no reason to waiver from those choices too much.
Good luck!
Rav4 is a good option although I have been in a new one and the transmission was smooth but kinda lazy shifting which makes it kinda questionable. I would probably look at the Rav4 with the 6-speed tranny, basically from 2018 and older.
I just wanted to come back and provide an update as a data point as it were incase anyone finds themselves in a similar situation.
Firstly, Subaru did cover the transmissions. They replaced it doing what they called a "Good Faith Repair". There claim was the fluid in the CVT was low and that is why the CVT Transmission died. The service manager at my local dealer claimed that the fluid was 8qts low. The local dealer was the ONLY one to do any type transmission fluid related work on the vehicle.
My Opinion - and we all know what they say about opinions is: Subaru of America is at least in some instances associating failed CVT transmissions as being caused by low CVT fluid in an effort to under report and misrepresent the truth about there transmission failure rates. The dealer worked in a very specific way, first telling me just how expensive it would be to pay out of pocket for the repair, and then telling me they were going to reach out to Subaru to see what they would do, only to have them come back and say in essence "Out of the goodness of our hearts we are going to take care of you". Based on that I think they generally avoid complaints or other legal issues as who isn't going to be happy that they just were saved over $8k. To be clear here there was no fluid leaking out of my transmission, or vehicle period. I park it on a newly paved blacktop driveway in the same spot every day. There is nothing on the blacktop. The vehicle was driven more then 10k miles AFTER Subaru did the fluid change. Therefore the CVT Transmission that Subaru creates is either 1.) the greatest transmission in the world as it doesn't need 8 quarts of its fluid and can still go over 10k miles in such a state or 2.) (and more likely than not) they are lying. I don't believe Option 1 is even possible, as the transmission never had any issues shifting, or had any smell of burning or any sign at all that there was a potential problem. It just failed.
I did contact Subaru of America myself and they in essence told me "We are happy to have fixed your transmission for you".
My response to all of this is I sold 2 of my 3 Subaru vehicles and intend to sell my 3rd vehicle later this year and never look back. Other peoples mileage may vary but for me the entire situation has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I will never again own or recommend one of their products. Perhaps it is a one off situation but the research I did online seems to indicate that there CVT's do die for no apparent reason. Perhaps my dealer was exceptionally bad with regards to not being honest and upfront about the root cause, or perhaps they were 100% misinformed when telling me the transmission was 8qts of fluid low.
Also, I ended up test driving a Rav 4, Highlander, and 4 Runner. I ended up going with a 4 Runner. It was more then I wanted to spend and obviously I am sacrificing gas mileage. But I found their overall reliability to be next to impossible for me to argue with.
3. I would add the Highlander to your mix. Also, the Honda CR-V. I can think of a couple of others that people here might disagree on, but given that the Tacoma and Rav4 appear to be in your price range, I see no reason to waiver from those choices too much.
I will add the Highlander to my list of considerations. I was considering a CR-V I have a buddy who works as a sales rep over at one of the local Honda Dealerships so I thought it might be an option. However, the Honda CR-V uses a CVT Trans, it also is a 1.5L turbo charged engine that had issues (and perhaps it truly is fixed now) with excess gas getting into the oil. I know Scotty did a video on this and suggested it would be okay as long as you stay on top of changing the oil. Changing the Oil more frequently is not a big deal but the fact that they use a CVT Trans in it has lead me to remove the CR-V as an option.
Okay, I was not aware that Honda had gone that route on the CR-V. My personal opinion would be look at a pre-CVT used one if that's what you decide on. Otherwise, if I had my pick and it was for my wife, my guess is your best option is actually the Highlander. Honestly, it would top my list out of the gate and then I'd work my way down if she for some reason doesn't like it. I just think it gives you the best mix of features plus proven reliability.
Clarification: was the transmission fluid ever changed on that CVT (if so, when)? My guess is No since Subaru claims it is lifetime and most people end up not doing it. But just confirm. Thank you.
Fluid was changed by the dealer at 60k miles per their recommendation.
It's frustrating. One CVT blows up at 60,000 and the next one goes 200,000.
You should seriously consider getting vehicles with manual transmissions. Why? Because they have been perfected over 120 years. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to fix and nobody will steal your car because most people don't know how to drive them.
You are not alone. Other Subaru owners have had issues in particular model years 2012-2017 (not just with Forester, but also other Subarus). Subaru even extended the warranty on those from 5 years/60,000 miles to 10 years/100,000 miles. See below: supposedly the newer ones are better, but jury is still out on the longevity of these even.
https://www.cashcarsbuyer.com/subaru-cvt-transmission-problems/
Even Honda had issues with their CVTs when they first came out, growing pains. But overall, if I want a vehicle to last as long as possible (until wheels fall off), a CVT is not the way to go.
A clue, … just perhaps, that one should look at some other system as a root source than CVT failing itself:
"The car wouldn't get any real power and the front passenger side wheel was chattering / locking up."
… like defect in Subaru’s "Symmetrical Full-Time AWD", … or maybe front passenger side driveshaft, CV joints, wheel hub assembly crashing for some reason. Dunno, … CVTs do fail, but most often with prolonged symptoms. ( … just musing out loud!)
F.S.
