Is this a transmission/PSD issue? Can it be fix, or is a transmission/PSD replacement in my future? Or is it nothing? (Camry hybrid)
Does anyone else's car do this? Anything I can do to fix this or figure out why it is doing this?
The TLDR is:
I have a 2014 Toyota Camry XLE Hybrid. Recently I have noticed that when I take my foot off the gas (especially at highway speeds) the car sort of jerks when I let off the gas, and jerks again if I hit the gas a gain... It's hard to describe this accurately, jerk is sort of a harsh word - but it's like it doesn't shift smoothly, though being a CVT, I would almost liken the feeling like as if the CVT transmission "belt" were stretched out, or something, and had some play in it when I let my foot off the gas/re-engage the gas... It makes no noises, and other than this, it drives pretty normally.
This primarily happens when I am trying to keep a speed or accelerating, then say a car ahead of me hits the brake or something, and I let off the gas, to coast, then hit the gas to maintain speed or accelerate if able. It doesn't always occur, but it primarily happens in such a situation. Especially if I am accelerating, then let off suddenly, or suddenly accelerate again... If I ease into letting off/on, it usually transitions somewhat smoothly.
I thought maybe it's a transmission/engine mount, but... When I Rev the engine with the hood open with the car parked, the engine doesn't move, really at all. I won't lie, I do drive the car a little hard, hard acceleration, etc... But I also baby the car in other ways, for example I always come to a complete stop before shifting between reverse and drive, I usually even avoid go from neutral to any gear if the car is in motion (like leaving a car wash, I try to brake to a stop before shifting). I avoid bumps, or take them slow, etc.
One key thing that happened recently, is that I replaced the CV axle assemblies and transmission fluid. I only mention this because I bought the fluid and axles from my local Toyota dealership, but they sold me a 26 spline driver side axle... Long story as to how I came to realizing this - let's just say I had to replace both the driver axle and front wheel bearing/hub twice because the original axle/hub was a 30 spline (and the passenger side axle/hub both original and replacement had 30 splines, why would the driver side be 26 splines if the passenger side is 30 splines, and the driver side hub was 30 splines originally). I replaced the driver side axle with the 26 spline axle Toyota sold me unaware it was not 30 spline axle, where the replacement hub was a 30 spline hub... I came to this realization after getting about half a mile from my house on a test drive, without my cell phone, everything was great until it wasn't, the driver side axle started spinning freely inside the hub, tearing splines up and, and causing the axle nut that I torqued to 213ft/lbs to essentially spin freely (took about half a mile to loosen up I guess), cross threading it bad enough I had to cut it off... I pushed the car back home (after walking home, getting the wife and kid, and walking back to the car - and that is why you never test drive without a cell phone). I spoke to Toyota, they swear up and down that they sold me the correct part for my VIN#. I am still of the belief that isn't correct... But I bought another 26 spline axle and a 26 spline hub, pressed the new hub/bearing and installed the new axle, and everything seems generally good as new.
It's possible this jerky feeling I am feeling has always been there, and now I am hyper sensitive to it after doing all this car work, but... I am just now taking notice of it anyways. But it feels like it has to be kind of hard on the transmission/PSD when it happens, over time.
Additional question:
Does it seem like time to prepare for a replacement transmission/PSD? Does the 2014 Toyota Camry XLE Hybrid share the same transmission/PSD as the Lexus ES300h? Both seem to use the same part # (30900-33030 or 33040 or 33053). Based on the part # alone, I'd say yes, but...Some places say no when I do a compatibility check with my car. And for that matter, does the Camry and ES300h use the same hybrid battery G9510-33050, I have been starting the prep/search for a good price for a new battery (from Toyota, no 3rd party), as I am probably on borrowed time with the original.
Further information/History:
I've owned the car since 2016, and roughly since 30,000 miles - my father bought the car certified used from the dealership around 28,000 miles, and then passed away shortly afterwards, and I essentially inherited the car... It now has over 183,000 miles (mostly highway), and for the most part, it's still going strong! Up until a little bit ago, it was mostly all original parts - but recently I've replaced (mostly doing my own repairs/maintenances):
-Both CV axle assemblies (Toyota)
-Passenger side CV bearing support bracket (DuraLast/AutoZone)
-Both front knuckles (TRQ/A1-Auto)
-All 4 wheel bearings and hub (fronts are SKF, rears unknown - a shop did those)
-All 4 struts/springs (KYB)
-All 4 sway bar links (Toyota)
-Both front lower control arms (Toyota)
-Both front tie rods (not sure brand, a shop did those)
-Both front brake calipers (DuraLast/AutoZone)
-All 4 wheel's ceramic brake pads and coated rotors (Wagner)
-Front driver speed sensor (DuraLast/AutoZone)
-12 Volt battery (Toyota)
-Air conditioner blower fan (Um... RockAuto, forget brand)
-Engine radiator/AC condenser cooling fans (TYC)
-All 4 spark plugs (Denso)
-All 4 TPMS sensors (Denso)
And other miscellaneous stuff like fog and headlight light bulbs, tires, etc. I've also had the wheel balance and alignment checked recently.
I have also religiously performed oil changes with new crush washers and Toyota oil filters, engine air filter, cabin air filters, all maintenances at scheduled intervals (oil changes were done every 10,000 miles when the car was mostly a highway car - now I do oil every 5,000 miles as I don't drive nearly as much on the highway as I use to). the transmission fluid has also been replaced first around 100,000 miles (mostly highway miles), and it was replaced again about 75,000 miles later (technically it was replaced a 3rd time about 6,000 miles afterwards, sort of by accident - I replaced the CV axles, lost some fluid, went to top the fluid off and mindlessly opened the drain plug - so I filled it up with all new fluid), always using Toyota ATF-WS transmission fluid, and replaced crush washers. the coolant (both inverter and engine) and brake fluid also have been routinely changed, and the hybrid filter routinely cleaned. Spark plugs were replaced at 125,000 miles. This car is religiously maintained! And I use proper torque specs/torque wrench when tightening bolts/screws! And the car is essentially all stock, no mods.
Unrelated but interesting side note:
It was rather surprising to me when my engine radiator/AC condenser cooling fans failed. I learned of this issue when my AC quit blowing cold unless I was moving, but if I idled at a traffic light or parked, the AC would blow warm. Which naturally made me think the condenser was unable to radiate the heat from the compressor unless air was passing by it while moving. When parked, a fan moves air past the condenser, but because the fan failed, this wasn't occurring. To my surprise when I looked at the fan, neither the condenser nor engine radiator fan were working. My best theory is, unless they some how failed at the same time (unlikely) the engine radiator fan failed first, but went unnoticed because the engine never overheated, though further interesting is the fact that even when both fans failed, the engine still never overheated, probably because as I am moving, air passes through it - and when I am still, the engine kicks off and the car runs on the hybrid battery. The engine never overheated, and replacing both fans (an assembly) fixed my AC issue, it now blows cold all the time when on.
Given I've literally replaced the AC blower fan, and the engine radiator and AC condenser fans by this point... Maybe I might want to consider getting a spare hybrid battery cooling fan on hand. Seems like fans have not been this car's point of focus in quality.
CVT, I would almost liken the feeling like as if the CVT transmission "belt" were stretched out, or something, and had some play in it when I let my foot off the gas/re-engage the gas
The Toyota hybrid CVT isn’t belt driven, it is planetary gear driven. Make sure you have the right type of fluid and the right amount of fluid in the transmission.
You did a lot of work to the car, so it is hard to say what exactly it is.
One idea, if it is a jolt like sensation (assuming it isn’t the transmission itself or the other work to the car) is this. Your hybrid battery might be on its way out. Usually you would get a code and the red triangle of death showing and the check engine light if this is the case.
So first of, thank you very mixj for your reply! I've posted this in 2 forums (here and Toyota Nation) and you're my only reply since (it's only been like 14 hours), and that's probably because my post is long winded, lol - but details matter when troubleshooting! And I gave effort to separate details by how critical they were...
Anyways, I'm pretty positive I'm using the proper amount of fluid, its about 4 quarts I believe. I have to pump the fluid into the transmission/PSD through the fill hole, and essentially I pump until it starts profusely rejecting the fluid (profusely because air pockets can cause false indications that its full, I keep pumping until it just flat won't take fluid anymore). Then I let it drain excess for as long as it will, until the trickle is pretty much no more, then cap it with the fill plug and fresh crush washer. Also I ensure the car is fairly level before performing this, which I do in my driveway (inclined up), with the car parked backwards, jacking up the front end, and using a level on the frame adjacent to the transmission/PSD, until the bubble indicators it's level, while on jack stands.
And I'm using genuine Toyota ATF-WS fluid purchased from Toyota, I grab 5 quarts because I know it takes roughly 4, and I like having 1 extra incase I need it, especially since you have to blindly overfill it first, then let drain the excess.
Interesting, I've also had the same thought about my hybrid battery possible on its way out too - it's just odd this is the only symptom of that, if that's the case. But that's not an irrational thought. I've already begun researching battery replacement should that be the case, and I've been monitoring the battery using an app on my phone with a wireless OBD2 dongle, which is a highly rated app, but also not the official word on anything.
I also have access to Toyota Techstream software, and have been monitoring all systems for codes, and right now no codes exist for any symptom in any system including the hybrid system. That includes all systems beyond your typical DTC codes, like ABS, SRS, etc...
I've also gone over my work on the car as has a shop, I think my work is solid, like I said above, I do use a torque wrench and torque specs, etc... The prime suspected possible parts I messed with would be obviously the transmission/PSD and fluid as discussed already, CV axles, brakes... Even the front lower control arms as I had to mess with engine/transmission mounts to swap them (one of the mounts on each side covers a bolt I need to access in order to remove/replace the lower control arm), but everything looks solid.
Kind of a real stumper!
Thanks for your thoughts again though!
(Sorry about typos, typed in a rush from phone, I think you can understand me, if I need to clarify something, let me know)
If it is indeed the hybrid battery, my recommendation is either OEM from
The dealer or refurbished from Green Bean Battery. New battery prices fluctuate, and if you catch it at a good time, it might not be much more than a refurbished.
Those times are rare, but just good to cross compare pricing at the time you need it.
I personally have a Green Brean refurbished in my Prius, and so far so good. I had it replaced at the beginning of the pandemic.
The only catch is, they take your old battery in exchange. But the good news is that it is free installation when you buy from them.