Usually, taking a transmission out and putting it back in would cost you about $250 on most complex modern cars. on difficult cars it’s a bit it can be an extra $100-$200.
But Toyota just changed the game.
Toyota’s new design doesn’t allow for the engine and transmission to be separated under the hood - instead apparently now it required to disconnect all of the electronics, lines and hoses and lower the whole subframe.
when your sealed shut CVT transmission will wear out, and they all eventually do, it’s going to cost twice as much to repair.
(original video link in the comments)
https://youtu.be/1SPZ-o_0-io
Whats your opinion on this new design?
(( not my video , a friend found it online and sent me))
All new cars are trending towards being throwaway items. Repairs are becoming so complex and expensive it's not economically feasible to fix them when they get old.
I agree.
It’s almost certainly their goal.
They’re doing everything to make repair impossible.
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It seems like they chose to build reliable cars, but make their repairs impossible.
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A good example to that would be the Ford 1.0T, it’s a good engine but when it needs timing belt at 150k miles, Ford charges $1,250 in labor alone to replace. ridiculous.
they also require the crankshaft bolt to be tightened to 450NM (that’s 2.5x what the god damn thing makes)
They made a light, durable and efficient engine - but made it purposefully impossible to repair.
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I think Toyota took the same path - reliable but completely unrepairable.
Nothing new here.
Since it is less labour for the dealership, you are going to see this kind of engineering more and more.
That Chevy Astro/GMC Safari photo says it all. You will never believe how many of those were in the shop at my father's old job.
6 bolts to separate the body. V8 swaps were very popular. All you needed was an engine hoist.
Yeah, but those are body on frame. and this is a unibody. the engine doesn’t come out with everything still attached (cooling, fuel, suspension, …)
Unlike these trucks, On a Toyota everything has to get disconnect are reassembled - much more labor and technical skills needed!
This is pretty much Toyota screwing over owners and small repair businesses.
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This is definitely a new low.
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Also, does a Ford truck require to disassemble the front of the transmission to change the filter? Cause on a Toyota that was already a 6-12 hour job.
It was already inexcusably unserviceable and expensive to repair garbage (once you’ll need a major repair like CVT cone bearings - can occur before 60k miles) somehow they made it even worse.
Independent shops will adjust over time, like they always have. There will be new tools and equipment to deal with it. Who knows, maybe it will be better in the long term. Progress marches forward. You can't stop it.
Hybrids, CVTs, sealed components and overly complex repair procedures - are not technological advancements, it’s “progress” towards a future where all cars are disposable garbage.
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These recent developments aren’t pro-consumer - it’s just a middle finger to their customers.
I want a car that's easy to work on when something breaks. This new design is ridiculous. I feel like they try to jam in everything they possibly could- it makes it impossible to work on for regular mechanics.
Yep.
Personally I’m shopping for a repairable car. The only relatively new car with good reliability, safety and that js possible to fully service at a home garage is the Suzuki Vitara (I’m outside of the US)
Alternatively, Mazda’s are also simple enough but you are going to need a special scan tool to work on them and they are much more complex.
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Everything else is just getting ridiculously complex and unmaintainable.
Try working on a Lamborghini/Ferrari setup. This looks like a breeze in comparison.
I'm not a fan of the cab-on-chassis. Once Ford took apart my F150, for the first time, it was so much worse than before in regards to chassis fitment, noises, and more.
I expect more cars to become more difficult to maintain.
The thing is that this is not a can on chassis - it doesn’t come apart easily. You have to disconnect the engine from everything.
So it is worse.
The thing is that a Highlander is not a Ferrari.
It’s a Highlander not an Alpha Romeo Stelvio.
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I don’t buy a Toyota to have my cone bearings whine, my belt to slip and then be charged 1.5k for dropping a tranny.
Not to mention having to align it, it’s an older car many of the rubbers will have to be replaced and more… Toyota did a seriously uncool move.
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The irony is that you’ll probably never have to pull out the engine or transmission of a Stelvio, unlike Toyota’s CVTs, Alpha’s ZF built 8 speeds last.
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Also, Ferrari transmission? c’mon, given you can find a good replacement, almost anyone with enough time and courage can replace the dual clutch assembly on a 7DCL750/8DCL900 (not much different from a 7DCI600 from BMW M series or a 6DCT450 from the Dodge Avenger / any modern Volvo)
If they’ll ever need to, unlike Aisin’s belts, Getrag’s clutches can handle some abuse.
Just think of the killing a smart car company is gonna make when they make cars we can all maintain ourselves. There must be a market for them.
Suzuki is one of those.
They’re making decent cars, but they aren’t really making a killing.
Going simple and buying well built parts isn’t price competitive…
A non hybrid, non turbo Suzuki Vitara new is like $20k USD, and it has pretty much no equipment
I’ve seen fancy models with the nice torquey turbocharged, a sophisticated AWD system, external differentials… and yet they didn’t have a screen - they equipped it with a CD player.
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Although it’s a great car that’s just so simple and amazing to own and drive
Generally, Reliability and repair ability doesn’t sell cars, attractive exterior design, good economy and safety do.
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Reliable and repairable cars are rare because it just costs a lot of money to build them correctly. often because of lower production rates, they have to share engines with other models, share chassis and engines so most of them end up being a mixed experience…
If that was a hybrid highlander, oh boy that would be even worse...
Toyota IMO is like Apple, reliable but slowly becoming harder to repair. I am still happy to use Apple products and I do like Toyotas.
I mean I also use and like Toyota and Apple products, but when I see something ridiculous like the rumors about the iPhone 13 battery having mechanisms to prevent replacement - I just know that if any of that turns out true, I won’t buy that model.
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Toyotas already were not a viable option my opinion because of the Dynamic force engine being unproven, the complex gearboxes with spotty reliability records… but what they just did is just too way too much for me…
heck, I have seen some non-hybrid Volvos easier to repair, even if the parts cost more.
Yep, I agree.
my Volvo usually (knocking on wood) is quite easy to fix. There is a lot of working room under the hood, the issue is really finding parts and how much they cost 🥲
Or needing dealer only tools… that’s also not fun…