i will be buying a new vw passat that is PHEV (GTE), with a 1.4-liter turbocharged engine and electric motor
(the car comes with a plate, and i'm familiar about how to drive it so that will be the choice)
i would like to have a checklist before taking the car from the dealer
thanks
checklist before buying a new hybrid car
A. Don't.
B. If possible, get a PHEV.
C. Make Sure IT IS Japanese.
D. Make Sure It has NO mechanical link between engine and wheels.
E. Make Sure it has at least 8 years of battery warranty.
(written by yours truly, user of a non-Japanese Hybrid-EV with a mechanical link between the engine and wheels via a tri-clutch)
If going against advice:
F. 1. Open a savings plan to save at least $7,500 in 3 years for hybrid and DCT repairs.
F. 2. Open another savings plan to save at least $15,000 for a new battery in 5 years.
F. 3. Make friends with a VW service manager, you'll be seeing him from time to time.
So while Toyota's unbreakable synergy drive gives you a 8 year/ 100k mile EV drivetrain AND a 10-year/150,000-mile hybrid battery warranty - VW politely takes your $40k (on a car that drives worse than a $25k car) and instructs you to pound sand when the quality of their German engineering becomes apparent.
And I'm not kidding, VW has STOPED sponsoring and providing owners with assistance repairing failed hybrid systems!
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/nov/09/vw-repair-bill-passat-gte-warranty
I guess they need to pay for their MASSIVE , absolutely INCOMPREHENSIBLE, corporate debt and failing company somehow.
Just to be clear: Hybrid system failures are typical to see right after the 3 year warranty ends ($1,500 - $5,000) , and on a German car batteries fail within 5 years ($7,500 - $15,000) and at about 100k miles you'll NEED a new clutch and new pistons (since on the 1.4TSI they crack) and by 150k miles prepare for a new engine replacement.
I’m curious. What do you mean mechanical link between engine and wheels.
Using a Prius/Toyota as comparison, it has both an electric linkage and mechanical linkage from the engine. I’m sure you mean something different than how I am interpreting it.
I think I might understand. I think you mean that the “hybrid” acts more like an EV, just using the gas for electricity, rather than gas running in an engine, which runs the wheels?
@Kaizen
I mean that the torque flow and "gears" are created using EV motors and not dog clutches or friction packs.
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Toyota is special in the sense that their Hybrids have a brilliant thing called a "power-split device"
it can use the engine for boost without ever mechanically connecting / disconnecting anything or reacting a rigid connection.
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Toyota uses a planetary, the engine is connected to a planetary carrier, while a the generator is connected to the the sun gear.
In normal operation, when the engine spins, it only spins the planetary which spins the sun gear and that turns the generator.
But when the sun gear inputs torque onto the planetary, the planetary transfers some torque to the ring gear.
So although the only thing they did is apply voltage to an EV motor, they mange to create engine boost.
No rigid mechanical connection and yet torque can flow to the wheels - As always, Toyota are on a different level.
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Other's like Honda and Nissan have went even further and have completely got rid of "power-split" systems and went to a "RxEV" configuration (Although, Honda hybrids have 1 gear ratio that can be mechanically connected for the equivalent of 5th gear on a 6 speed manual - but other then that, no other rigid connections or gear change mechanism, pure electric drive)
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That's in contrast to a lot of crappy hybrids just strap an EV motor to the input of a regular gearbox and hope for the best.
(Old Nissans, European Ford, Chinese Cars, VW, Hyundai-Kia, PSA, and others who just didn't develop a proper drivetrain)
Thanks!
Find out how much it costs to replace the battery when it won't take a charge anymore. Then, buy lottery tickets to cover the cost and hope for a win.
lol
if a vehicle requests to use 0w-20 oil and i put 0w-30 oil into it, what would happen?
Unless explicitly allowed by the manual - nothing good.
Oil viscosity was carefully chosen by the manufacturer, it's critical to follow those instructions.
and does electric-power-steering needs any maintenance?
Not as far as I know, EPS systems usually do not require service - if they do, the manual probably states so.
and how do i change the transmission fluid?
At a VW specialist.
Note that gearbox oil replacements are an ABSOLUTE MUST(!!!) on a DSG hybrid car!
These are very unreliable and complex pieces of machinery with the main reasons for premature failure (before 60k miles) being aggressive driving or infrequent oil changes.
wait for the liquid to drop away,
and put the bottom back and fill it up?
Nope it's a VW, there's a procedure.
I think there are 3 drain plugs like on a 2000s dual clutch (because the DQ400e, is super similar to the 2000s DQ250)
Use ONLY OEM oil (I think it's G052182A2), I know it costs an arm and a leg (the fluid it self, no labor, can be over $200 depending on where you buy it) but it's cheaper than a new DSG.
DO NOT forget about the gearbox filter, in typical VW fashion, it's above the gearbox so that everything will be in oil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en7l4ahmtlo
copy all
and yes, i'm very serious about AT fluid change
btw, would this hybrid system be fitted with manual transmission in theory?
If you're asking about modifying an existing hybrid - no, that would not be cost effective at all and might be just impossible.
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If you're asking in theory, There are hybrids with manual transmissions and they have been around for a while and all those are very-light duty hybrid systems like Hyundai-Kias 48V hybrid and Honda's IMA.
BUT, if we are talking about high output systems (such as the VW GTE series), they're very hard to manage as there are more variables than a human can manage at any single moment (for example, the computer has to chose the operation mode like Electric Vehicle / Range Extended Electric Vehicle / Power Split Hybrid, which would be annoying to manage (you'f have to constantly monitor battery and battery draw) but possible, the REAL issue is to manage the tens of variables within each operation mode)
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And quite honestly, I do not see the appeal of a manual - systems like Toyota's Synergy Drive have made the transmission and engine boost simpler and more reliable than a manual.
okay, thanks for explaining
what about pure EVs using manual transmission?
EVs with manual shift gearboxes aren't likely to be a thing, since there's no need for multiple ratios.
An EV motor does not need different gear ratios -
unlike petrol engines with a very small window in which it's effective, most EV motors are effective throughout their entire range.
And even with Petrol engines and their tiny power band, a lot of the earliest cars had only 2 speeds to be used in normal driving (for Chrysler vaccumatic gearboxes is was 3rd and 4th)
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So there's no need to change gear ratios on an EV motor,
same is true even in good hybrids hybrid, the EV motor has a single speed - For instance,
in Toyota's hybrid system, the EV motor that drives the wheels is connected trough a single ratio.
Same with Tesla, Renualt-Nissan-Mitsubishi, and others.
The only ones who I can think of that still have different ratios for the EV motors are VW and Hyundai-Kia, but they will catch up, sometime.
Although Hyundai-Kias tri-clutch design is an engineering nightmare with that many wearables and moving parts and computer logic, at least easier to repair than other nightmares and comes with incredible efficiency.
Use the recommend oil viscosity in the owners manual. Going with a thicker oil can potential ruin the engine. Modern cars have tighter and tighter tolerances, that a thicker oil wouldn’t be able to coat it adequately.
TMK. Electrical steering doesn’t need any maintenance.
With transmission fluid, it differs per car. On YouTube search for Scotty Kilmer transmission fluid exchange, or something like that. He has tons of videos of the do’s and don’ts.
Usually there is a bottom bolt to drains the fluid, and a top bolt to put in the fluid. One trick I heard was to remove the top bolt first, to make sure you can remove it, before draining the whole thing and realizing you can’t fill it. But it might be different for other cars.
got it, according to the manual requirements
and got it, i just don't go wild about electric power steering
D. Make Sure It has NO mechanical link between engine and wheels.
excuse me, what does this mean?
and it is a phev vehicle
and i mainly use the battery for powering the ac and spend a night in the vehicle rather than driving
btw i would need the battery to drive the vehicle while being in a traffic jam
> excuse me, what does this mean?
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For example: On a Camry Hybrid, the engine is MOSTLY to generate electricity and that electricity is then used to spin the "traction motor".
This approach does NOT create a rigid mechanical link between the engine and the wheels, and makes Toyota powertrains last.
(EDIT: No mechanical gear changes)
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VW on the other hand has made a mess. They decided to go back to the 90s and have a mechanical transmission, so they just took a plain old DSG installed another clutch between the engine and transmission (disengagement clutch), and have installed a very stupidly designed EV motor - it's the first high power EV motor I herd of that probably needs gear changes! 😂 (the benefit of EV motors is that they do not need those, but this "e-motor" revs up only to 7k RPM, which is nothing the realm of electric traction motors, it also produces a respectable 300NM which is more then enough to turn the internals of the DSG into mush)
I genuinely can not think of a worse way to design such a powertrain.
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I absolutely love how this "Hybrid Electric Car" uses a hydraulic mechanism to control the gearbox and EVEN IT BREAKS DOWN!
https://www.speakev.com/threads/hybrid-error-gearbox-error-broken-gte.133310/
Everything about this steaming worthless pile of garbage some people may mistakenly call a car is hilarious.
how about telling me what to check about buying a normal car
Well, when buying a new car there's much less to check.
Body work, millage, interior fit, paint work, the papers, that everything you ordered is included - it's much less than when buying used, when you're receiving a car you want to verify that there's nothing obvious wrong with it mechanically (cars that jerk like mad, have warning lights - should not be accepted if your contract with VW allows so - you don't want to get your brand new car stuck in the shop for 3 months like every other VW owner: https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/vw-atlas-parking-brake-engaging-by-itself/ ) and that the body and other things you won't be able to prove that haven't been caused by you are in good shape (it's not uncommon to see dealers selling scratched up cars caused by improper detailing technique when cleaning before transferring ownership)
Also remember that if you drive of lot and feel that there's an issue - return there immediately, ideally even before exiting the lot.
And also read and educate yourself on the lemon law, if applicable in your area - VW is used to buying back their lemons.
(if you google Volkswagen lemon law you can see how many sue Volkswagen so that they will buy back their lemons for a living)
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Very common issue on modern VWs is clutch slippage, sometimes even with very low millage
It is near impossible to replace the clutch properly and it costs a fortune due to the layout of the hybrid.
Mechatronic issues are beyond common, usually the car gets stuck in first gear - it's important to stop, turn of the engine and get a tow truck, if you'll drive with a bad mechatronic you'll likely add wear to the clutch and that's easily $3,000 on a hybrid (if out of warranty, those $3k are in addition to the mechatronic which also costs thousands - it's far from being a $600 valve body like on a Subbie linetronic, those are also known for gearbox hydro-electric control unit failures)
Electronic engine control system lights are common but there no solution in sight, if first started in India with their new 1.0 TSI EVO but it seems to affects most TSI engines made after 2020.
And mainly, the "kangaroo", usually it affects 1.5T, but I've seen it also on 1.4T - there's no solution in sight.
https://youtu.be/SAAjwKHmbM0?t=25
and what oil should i use for that 1.4T engine?
5w-30 or 5w-40?
If I remember correctly, last generation turbocharged VW EA211 engines use 0W-20, at least that's the case with the TSI VGT turbo "kangaroo effect" engine they install in the regular Passat - but this may not be applicable to your car.
Check your manual and use the oil specification recommended by the manufacturer.
if a vehicle requests to use 0w-20 oil and i put 0w-30 oil into it, what would happen?
and does electric-power-steering needs any maintenance?
and how do i change the transmission fluid?
can i do that by just removing the bottom shell of the transmission box,
wait for the liquid to drop away,
and put the bottom back and fill it up?