Hello all!
I have a 2017 Hyundai Elantra 2.0 4 cylinder with 98k miles on it bought used with 40k miles in 2017. The engine was replaced due to a failed bearing, with what I was told would be a new engine, but instead was replaced with a remanufactured (salvaged and fixed) on 3/8/20. Within six days, the engine overheated and seized on the highway. The dealership says it was caused by a broken clamp on the coolant hose, which they fixed. Two months ago, the car overheated again. I checked coolant levels and they seemed to be empty. I refilled the coolant and everything was fine, until a month later. I was driving on the highway and the engine overheated again. After letting the car cool off, I checked the coolant levels, and there was a dry smell. I topped it off, and the coolant, which was green (green was the only coolant to ever go into the car) filled quickly to the top as orange. When I got home, I popped open the hood to find the orange gunk everywhere. Dealership said the overheating was caused by a hole in the throttle body coolant line, which they say had corrosion. They said I have a blown gasket, and after performing a leak down test found cylinder 1 leaking into the cooling system. Dealership says I need a new engine, hoses, heater core, throttle body and radiator.
It's worth noting that the oil is clean, and isn't milky/white, no residue. There's no white smoke from the exhaust. The coolant is rusted, which is evident in the pictures. There's probably rust in the radiator. The engine also has valve clatter, which was always there from the time they put the new engine in. My car saavy friend informed me of that recently. Prior to this, I knew nothing about cars, and I am not very car literate.
They're quoting me $10.5k, which is what the car is estimated to be worth. They told me a cheaper option would be a used engine with 18k miles on it for $9.2k. Warranty company denied the claim, stating that they don't cover rust or corrosion damage. Hyundai corporate basically said it isn't their problem because the Hyundai warranty runs out in a year, which was in March. I don't know what else to do. I don't have $10k to put into the car, and I still have $10k left on the loan. It's immensely frustrating because they replaced the engine and within a year had three engine failures. The reman engine is an OEM reman ordered from Hyundai themselves. I feel like they're responsible because I trusted them to give me a new, reliable engine, and instead they gave me a faulty engine that's put my life in danger twice. What do you suggest I do? Is there a way for possible remediation?
I've attached pictures of the engine bay. The rust colored stuff is rusty coolant. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KnmNMDn6Izc6Vym4AunRVmnhWusW2ZP3?usp=sharing
- If you haven't talked to Hyundai corporate, try that and see what they say
- Consult a lawyer to see if you have any basis for a legal case
- Approach your local media outlets to see if they want to do a story on it
And I think that's where remediation ends.
After that there is only future mitigation:
- Learn from the mistake. Never buy Korean cars
- Shame them on social media, review websites etc.
- Spread the word. Tell everybody you know not to buy them.
You may also want to email your story to Scotty along with all the photos. Contact info is in the FAQ. He may include it in a video.
As for the car I would get rid of it as quickly as possible. Cut your losses before it sucks you down deeper. Don't spend another dime.
Thanks for the advice! Yeah, for sure I'm team Toyota-Honda from now on. I tried an attorney, who told me they couldn't take on a case, though that had more to do with the dealership I bought it from rather than the one who did the work, so I'll try again. Hyundai corporate said their warranty lasts a year, which was March 21, so any expenses would be out of my own pocket.
Concerning the public shaming, I do work for CNN. I suppose I could float a story on how Hyundai has hot engine issues they want to try and bury...
You made it to Scotty’s video at 5:17 below (published 1/29/22):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JS5GOiocsSY
That stinks but it is unfortunately a common story with Hyundai/Kia products.
Blue Devil and similar sealers are indeed a last resort and a bandaid if they work at all and they can clog up the cooling system. That can be mitigated somewhat by removing the thermostat (which you've already mentioned), and bypassing the heater core so that won't get plugged up. Scotty in his videos has been recommending the Bars Leak head gasket sealer ("Head Gasket Fix" in the silver bottle). I don't know how it compares with Blue Devil.
As far as the throttle body, if lucky maybe that will work well enough if the hose with the pinhole leak is replaced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0EdjDmfu8k
Thanks Chuck! I'll try and compare the two. As for bypassing the heater core, how would I do that? I'm assuming you're referring to not running the heater during the process? The bottle says to run the heater at full blast, since the AC draws heat away from the engine. I'm guessing this is to prevent further overheating while the process is going on. Am I correct on that?
Also, if I do the throttle body replacement, how could that work if the head gasket is still blown? Would you recommend doing the BlueDevil/Bars Leak sealer for the head gasket and have the throttle body replaced as well?
To bypass the heater core you would locate the two heater hoses, disconnect them from the heater, and connect them together with a piece of pipe. However if they want the heater running as part of the procedure then I guess you won't want to do that. (I've never used the stuff so I'm not going to tell you to deviate from their instructions.) You can see how it runs after "sealing" the head gasket regarding the throttle body. Perhaps just cleaning it will be good enough. (I'm assuming here that it runs enough that the sealer can be used.)
It drove home when it overheated ( overheated a good four times before making it home a few blocks. Had to stop & start several times on the way.) When it overheated the month prior, the coolant was empty. After refilling it, it didn't empty, but the coolant became that orange mix of coolant/oil. I'm assuming the gasket had been leaking for some time, since I mixed the two in a cup and didn't make that color right away. Idk if that gives you some indication on how it runs, but perhaps sealing or replacing the gasket could be enough if the engine block or cylinder heads aren't warped
Hopefully the sealer will be successful and it will run "good enough", but there are so many variables there's no way to tell what outcome you're going to have.
You're right. I'm going to have it towed to a local shop tomorrow and see what they have to say. I'm assuming they'll need a full teardown in order to figure things out?
To really know what's going on it would take a full teardown but I thought the idea was to get the thing running as cheaply as possible and then get rid of it.
That is the plan, just want to get an idea of what would be needed to figure out what the cheapest route would be
If you were to go to the expense of tearing the engine down to see what really happened then you might as well proceed with a proper repair. The materials for head gasket replacement are not expensive, most of the cost is labor. Tearing it down and putting it back together as-is would still cost well over $1000. If the cylinder head is warped, as @mmj mentioned, that's even more expense.
Basically the only realistic choices are to try the head gasket sealer, which has only a small chance of working and could make things worse, or selling the car as-is for whatever you can get for it.
Consult an attorney. It certainly sounds as though they violated their warranty agreement. They may well decide to give you satisfaction after being contacted by your attorney.
I definitely will! Although, in what way are you suspecting they may have violated the warranty agreement? Asking for clarity, since I explained the situation in depth. Claims adjuster said they don't cover damage caused by rust or corrosion, nor do they cover damage from overheating, since an engine can overheat without being damaged.
If I understand you correctly, you are still within your warranty coverage. They replaced your engine once already and obviously did a crap job. They can claim that you are not covered because of corrosion but that sounds like pure <profanity removed> to me. This car is 5 years old with under 100k miles. What judge in the world would side with them?
Please watch your language, @oldandy.
Forum rules are in the 'Welcome' topic.
Thank you.
@Oldandy They have multiple out as far as the warranty is concerned. For one, they don't cover damage due to overheating, which, they already told me they won't cover anything because you can have an overheated engine without damaging it. Second, I refilled the coolant and drove home. They said I drove the car in a failed state, and won't cover it because of that. Unfortunately looks like the warranty is worthless at this point
First, apologies for using the BS word. I never looked at the forum rules, guess I should have. I wish you luck with your problem. If it were me, I would take them to court. The engine they put in had problems immediately and they claim you screwed up by replacing the coolant that escaped? Really?
Go online and contact your states attorney generals office. Usually you just fill out a form on line. Your states DMV might have a place to post complaints especially states with emission checks.
just filed a consumer complaint. Thanks!
At this point, I just need to get it running so I can get rid of it finally.
I think you're just going to have to sell it as is.
You won't get the head gasket fixed for $1k.
I think the sealer is just going to make things worse. I mean , you kept driving after it overheated FOUR times. The heads are going to be warped to hell.
I would, but unfortunately not really an option. Still owe $10k on it, and when I inquired about selling as is at the dealer, they offered me $1,500. Not worth it imo.
What I was told by the warranty company, is that the engine can overheat but not necessarily be damaged unless overheated for a prolonged period. The only time it was overheated for longer than a min was the last time after refilling the coolant levels. It wasn't until I got home a few blocks down the road that (it appears) the gasket busted. There's a likelihood they are warped, but there's still potential that they may not be too bad, since every other time I pulled over and shut the car off to cool down once I saw the temp gague start moving beyond the middle.
I don’t know if there is much you can do.
1) Doesn’t Hyundai have a 100K mile and 5 or 10 year warranty? Technically you are within the warrant period? Double check the fine print. Maybe you can argue something.
2) Warranties are written in a way so they can get out of most warranty claims.
3) The only option I can think of is going to small claims court, but that would be a feat on its own, and might not even be worth it.
Some options:
1) Assuming you have GAP insurance, see if you can get the car mechanically totaled. Maybe insurance will cover the loan for you. If you don’t have GAP insurance, this won’t work.
2) If you want a cheap fix, that may squeeze a little more life out of your engine, you might want to try head gasket sealer: https://youtu.be/q3_kDiQb7lE
I say may because there is no guarantee to this fix, and this isn’t really a fix, it is a band aid.
At the very least, it may buy you some time to save up money to buy a relatively more reliable Honda or Toyota.
3) Good luck, and let us know how this all turns out.
@ Kaizen
Yes, it is in the warranty period. I've gone back and forth with several claims adjusters, and they maintain they won't do anything about it. On top of that, I have the extended powertrain warranty in addition to the base 100k mile warranty. The base warranty covers fuel lines, but not the engine. The power train covers the engine, but not the power lines. Based on what the service advisors showed the claims adjuster, if the issue was caused by corrosion in the throttle body, they won't cover it due to the corrosion. In addition, even if they did, only the throttle body would be covered, not the engine, so they still wouldn't do anything about it.
I was thinking of flushing the coolant and oil, then throwing that gasket sealer to hopefully get it driving for a day so I can trade it in, though a friend who owns a used dealership told me it's past the point of sealant, so idk what to do
Try to find an engine from the junkyard, install it with a local shop. Then take it to CarMax or Carvana to sell it.
inquired about selling as is at the dealer, they offered me $1,500
Of course they did. Sell it privately.
Or put the money together for top end rebuild. Your choice.
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/2002-camry-head-gasket-leak/#post-217211
Found out today that the radiator was clogged
clogged with what?
They're not sure exactly, but he said it was some strong industrial stuff, most likely stop leak. When the dealer did the teardown they said they found stop leak in the system, so I'm guessing that's what it is.
Well there you go. The whole problem was started by the very thing you wanted to use as a solution.
Well thank goodness I went with the more expensive option lol hopefully that's the end of it. New radiator, new water pump, fixed the leaking coolant line on the throttle body, new thermostat, cooling system flush and a new headgasket. I pray there's nothing else lol if not then all that's left is to get in exquisitely detailed so I can trade it in that same day.
So with that, new question. What car should I get after getting rid of this one? I was thinking Camry or civic, but the Mazda3 is cool. Prices are also ridiculous, so I'm not sure if it makes more sense to buy new or used
Please post a new question for that
What kind of warranty did you get when you bought it in 2017? There's always small claims court.
It came with a limited 10 year or 100k mile powertrain warranty, and I bought an extended warranty that has "Wrap coverage", which basically covers everything except the powertrain components. Extended warranty runs out at 100k miles, and the powertrain runs out at 139k
Update:
Hello all, I wanted to provide an update and ask for advice on next moves.
So, TL:DR: Hyundai screwed me with a bad engine. Talked to corporate, Atty. Gen., warranty company, attorneys, etc. Everybody told me to kick rocks. I have $1k+ and I need to get rid of this car ASAP. A mechanic told me to try Blue Devil and I bought it (requires thermostat removal, not pour and go.) Haven't used it yet. Need suggestions on what to do.
Basically, 2017 Hyundai Elantra had engine replaced. There's a pinhole leak in the throttle body coolant line that goes to the engine, causing it to overheat. Head gasket blew. The coolant is orange from mixing with oil, though the oil is clean, so best guess is there's oil in the coolant, not coolant in oil from what I can tell.
I was recommended a shop by a friend who owns a dealership where he gets his cars fixed. I was told by the mechanic to try blue devil gasket sealer, which I have sitting in the garage (it's the original one that requires the thermostat be removed and the cooling system flushed at least twice. Not the pour and go.) They told me to try that, and if it didn't work they could find out about putting a new head gasket on.
I haven't tried it for two main reasons: 1. I'm kind of worried about it gunking up important parts. I've heard people swear by it, that they've had blown gaskets, warped engine blocks/cylinder heads get up and working with it, and I've also head a lot of mechanics say it's a LAST resort as it usually will gunk up things like the heater core, coolant lines and so forth. 2. It's been difficult finding a mechanic that will do it for liability reasons, and I don't have the tools nor know-how on how to take the car apart, remove the thermostat, flush the cooling system and accurately do everything without screwing it up myself.
The service manager at the dealership told me that it would likely take a new throttle body and hoses to get it running again, although I don't think a car is gonna run much with a blown gasket.
I don't need/want a permanent fix, I'm trading it in immediately (have a guaranteed offer on the car once running.) What can I do to get it up and running for me to trade the car in? I've done EVERYTHING: Spoke in-depth multiple times with both the dealer that sold me the car, and the dealership that did the work (I was offered 10% off repairs. Woopee.) I contacted Hyundai corporate (I was told the engine's warranty ran out, and that it didn't cover the new engine. Tough luck.) I contacted the AG in my state (they contacted Hyundai corporate, who gave them the same answer they gave me, and refused to do anything.) I also contacted lawyers about filing suit (it would cost more than I would gain and no lawyer would take it on.)
At this point, I just need to get it running so I can get rid of it finally.
Sister is giving me $1k to do whatever I can to get it going to get rid of it. Any suggestions?
I've attached pictures of the engine bay. The rust colored stuff is the coolant. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KnmNMDn6Izc6Vym4AunRVmnhWusW2ZP3?usp=sharing
Thanks!
Sounds like a nightmare. Who needs all this crap. You just want to drive your car. Sounds like the dealer did a crappy job of changing out the engine. Unfortunately Hyundai/Kia does not regulate their dealers. The dealers are free to do as they please as long as they move the cars.
So I've learned. Interestingly enough, they said they found stop leak when they did the teardown on the engine following the last failure. this was on the replacement, that only they've ever touched. Considering the corroded throttle body line, and the stop leak (*supposedly*) I think there was some jank stuff going on.
You said the replacement engine was "salvaged and fixed" - in other words a junkyard engine. It's unlikely they actually "remanufactured" or "fixed" anything, they just dropped the junk engine in place. The evidence strongly suggests that the previous owner used sealer due to a blown head gasket.
So, another update.
Spoke with a local mechanic recommended to me by a dealership owner buddy. He offered to do a full cooling system flush, including flushing out the heater core, along with replacing the coolant line on the throttle body, replacing the thermostat with OEM, and running the sealant for a great price.
He also said that to replace the head gasket would be $600 for labor, bringing the cost under $1k. The only thing is that they will send the cylinder head over to a specialist to see if it's cracked. If it isn't, they'll just replace the gasket. If it is, I'll have to buy a new cylinder head, and he doesn't know how much that would run. As such, he recommended to go with the above option first, and in the event that fails, go for the gasket replacement, since it is more expensive.
I was told by the mechanic that the main reason why people end up clogging their radiators/heater cores, etc is because they run the sealant through multiple times, leave it running longer than recommended, and leave it in there. He said the way they do it they run it and then flush it out again once it's completed the time recommended so there's no excess. Not sure how accurate that is, but I'm going to give it a try. Dropping the car off in the morning.
Yet another UPDATE!!!!
So, took it to the shop yesterday. Found out today that the radiator was clogged and the water pump isn't working (of course), so they can't do the coolant flush and run the blue devil prior to those things being replaced. I decided that since I'm spending so much on replacements, may as well go ahead with a proper repair. So I bought a brand new head gasket, thermostat, radiator, and water pump.
For everything, including replacing the thermostat, head gasket, water pump, radiator, and leaking coolant line on the throttle body, as well as flushing out the entire cooling system and cleaning out the engine bay of the orange gunk, it's going to run me..a grand total....of around $700 for labor. With costs, I'm all in for $1200-1300. The only thing now is to see whether the cylinder head needs to be machined, but I was advised by not only the mechanics, but also technicians at the multiple auto shops I purchased from that the cylinder head should be fine, since it wasn't running extremely hot for a long period of time. The mechanic is going to send the head over to a machinist to be sure before replacing the gasket.