Is this sound normal for my matrix transmission?
I have a 2004 Toyota matrix with 190,000 miles. It has the 1.8 1ZZFE engine and the A246E automatic transmission. it makes a high-pitched whirring that coincides with the RPMs. Only noticeable when the windows are down, so it’s not very loud. I assume it’s transmission related noise. Feels to me like it’s shifting just fine.
Is this normal?
I only purchased the vehicle a couple of weeks ago. I just drained the transmission pan, cleaned the screen strainer and magnets, and refilled with fresh Toyota T-IV fluid. The old fluid was worn but not burned. The magnets had quite a bit of dark gray goop on them. No large metal shavings or shrapnel. A little bit of fine grit in the strainer. Service records that came with the vehicle indicated the transmission fluid had been inspected, but not replaced by the dealer.
I could not say if it was making this noise prior to the fluid change, because I seldom drive with the windows down. Usually with the windows up and the air conditioner running.
I bought a Corolla FX new in 1987, and I seem to recall the manual transmission in it making a similar sound. I’m thinking maybe this sound is characteristic of these small, tightly manufactured Japanese transmissions.
I'm not familiar with that transmission but I don't think that's a good sound for any of them. I'd say that your plan is about the best you're going to be able to do and pray it holds together for a while. (Love your Banjos for Breakfast channel by the way!)
Thanks For the nice compliment about my YouTube channel, Chuck!🪕🎶
In the interest of getting second opinions, I took this to my favorite local mechanic. Keep in mind the recording of my transmission noise is amplified quite a bit from proximity of The electret condenser mic on my phone being closed In the engine compartment. When I played the recording for him, he makes a face and says “that doesn’t sound too good!”
we went for a ride with the windows down. I pointed the noise out, and He looks at me and says “that’s it? this thing has 190,000 miles on it. What do you expect??? You should hear some of the transmissions my customers are driving around!”🤣
hehe, he's got a point
A local transmission guy I have used before says 100% of the time if the vehicle makes noise between first and second, the planetary gears are chewed up. He says he can get a replacement transmission with 60,000 miles on it and install it for $1750. I don’t know How he knew exactly how much money I had saved in my emergency car repair fund.🤔
That sounds pretty reasonable if the guy is reliable and guarantees the used trans, though it's always possible once he gets into it there may be other issues that need to be dealt with. On most front drive vehicles replacing the transmission requires a lot of disassembly and you never know what you're going to find when you start tearing into a car that's old enough to vote.
Right. I have to make the decision whether The vehicle is worth it. I need to put some thought into that. I gave 3000 for the car. I would have close to five grand in it by the time I’m done. Maybe it’s karma. I just sold a Previa for $1200 that I bought for $500 and drove for three years. It’s hard to say how long the matrix transmission would last. It’s a gig car, and I put a lot of highway miles on those. 50,000mi a year it’s not unusual.
With that kind of mileage I'd say the trans in the car will fail very soon making that kind of noise. If it was just a knockaround, occasional-use vehicle you might be able to get away with it for a while, but I'd bet good money that thing will be dead on the side of the road in short order with that kind of use. So basically your choices are going to be either buy a different vehicle or have that low-miles used transmission installed. Right now the used car market is crazy, which is also a factor. I've installed used transmissions into cars over the years and it's worked out well but that's installing them myself, so much less of a financial gamble if things go horribly wrong.
It will pick the hottest day of the year to strand me on the side of the road. I know how that works.
I cannot in good conscience sell the car for the 3K I now have in it with transmission failure looming. In this market, I could not find a reliable vehicle for 1750. I like the car. It’s reasonably comfortable. It has room for my gear. It gets very decent gas mileage. Evidence suggests the previous owner was faithful about oil changes, and the dealer replaced the engine coolant at the proper intervals. Transmission shop I use has worked out for me before. They rebuild a transmission for our 98 pathfinder that my son ended up with.
I think I will take it to my mechanic and talk it over. He is not the same guy who would do the transmission swap. He sends all his major transmission work to that shop.
I concur. I also would have a hard time unloading a car with a trans in that condition without explaining to the buyer that it needs the trans replaced, which of course means it would sell for next to nothing. If the rest of the car is in good condition and the engine is maintained you could well get another 150K-200K miles out of it with a low-mileage replacement transmission. Just be sure the used trans is guaranteed.
Well, I have a 09 Matrix with the same engine/trans, 130k miles, and I haven't experienced any high pitched whirring. I'd check the serpentine belt and the alternator, tensioner, etc. as they are the only items that have needed attention on mine.
Glen, thank you for your answer. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to Explain a sound by typing it out. I can rule out the serpentine belt, because I just changed the belt and The whole tensioner assembly. But it’s not like a belt squeal. Think of the terminator robot. The mechanical noise/sound effect it makes as it moves around. Or The sound made by a walking wind up toy. It is more kin to those sounds
Even for a toyota, 190k miles seems like too much to have done the fluid change in the first place.
Make sure that the fluid level is correct. I don't think that the lucas transmission fix will make the noise go away, it seems to be metal on metal. Especially because you said it isn't having any particular problems shifting.
You might as well keep driving it and see how long it lasts. Might go quite a bit longer, who knows.
Thank you for your advice. You are probably right about changing the fluid at those miles , but I tend to roll the dice in the direction of changing the fluid. I’m not 100% sure that the noise only started after the fluid change, since you really can’t hear it with the radio or AC on and the windows up. Chances are I did this to myself, though.😊
It's the Big Lie of "lifetime" transmission fluid that Scotty has talked about in his videos so many times. It was insane when manufacturers started telling car owners this 50 years ago and despite improvements in fluids and technology it is still insane. Unfortunately a lot of people believe it so you wind up with a car that has had no trans fluid changes in nearly 200K miles. The fact that it lasted that long under those conditions tells you those are tough transmissions. If you can really get one with only 60K miles on it as you mention below it should last practically forever with regular fluid changes.
That's the sound of a worn out transmission. No fluids can help that.
That’s what the local transmission shop says, too.
I dig your pickin', by the way.
Thanks, Joe!
Listing to the video it doesn't sound to bad. If the transmission shifts fine I would not worry about it. If it seems to get worse I would than try the replacement transmission.
I apologize, because I don’t know how to embed the videos into my posts using a smart phone.
I talked to the maintenance guys At the local Toyota dealer. They told me I should not have taken the screen off and cleaned it. They said the particles and grit in that screen help The bands do their job as the transmission ages. in other words, they actually told me the transmission was designed to be dirty.
They are lying to you. What happens is that when fluid changes are not done the transmission wears prematurely and the fluid gets loaded with friction material from the bands and clutches. When it reaches that point the grit in the fluid is what's keeping it working. However, that is NOT the way it is designed. It is a side effect of poor maintenance and the reason why changing the fluid under those conditions causes problems. The ideal is to keep the fluid clean in the first place so excessive wear doesn't happen in the first place.
AMEN!
04 Matrix 1ZZFE A246E 190k mi
this is kind of a repeat, so I apologize. It’s just that I didn’t get any useful feedback on my other post.
Just purchased it. Seller showed me dealer service records. Toyota inspected the transmission fluid, but never changed it. I decided to go ahead and do it.
After dropping the transmission pan, cleaning a fair bit of black glop off the magnets, cleaning the strainer with brake cleaner and an air compressor, and refilling with Toyota brand T-IV Fluid, The transmission makes the following sound between first and second gear.
Recording of transmission whine in YouTube
I don’t notice any problems with the shifting other than the noise. Noise indicates friction, which seems like an enemy to a transmission.
I’m considering doing another fluid replacement and adding some Lucas transmission conditioner... not the super thick stuff.
or should I just leave it alone and see what happens?
I was just looking at reviews for a gasket and strainer kit on Amazon. One of the reviewer‘s said that after changing the fluid with the kit their transmission started whining between first and second gear🤔