Scotty:
I live in Minnesota
do 100% city driving, no towing, a little off roading, I change my oil RELIGIOUSLY at 3,000 miles, some times sooner, and stay on top of PCV, filters, etc. for my 2008 Toyota 4runner V6, 4x4 with 220,000 miles.
I’ve used conventional 5w-30 but the store I buy from stopped producing their oil.
Would you recommend I switch to a different brand of CONVENTIONAL 5w-30, or move to SYNTHETIC ?
I’ll confess: I use cheap filters too, and I would prefer NOT to move to synthetic, but it’s hard to find conventional anywhere these days.
also: what did the ocean say to the shore? Nothing….. it waved……. 🙂
I haven't heard of conventional oil having any benefits over synthetic oil.
Synthetic oil maintains it's rated viscosity longer under high heat than conventional oil. I visualize viscosity by comparing maple syrup to water. The maple syrup is a thicker liquid than water, so the maple syrup has more viscosity. Viscosity is simply how easily a liquid flows. High viscosity liquids are thicker and flow more slowly compared to low viscosity liquids such as water.
Since synthetic oil can maintain it's viscosity longer than conventional oil. The synthetic oil won't thin out as fast. When motor oil starts to thin out that's when metal parts inside the engine start rubbing against each other causing wear. Such as the piston rings rubbing against the cylinder walls.
The piston rings actually hydroplane on a thin layer of oil and never touch the cylinder wall. The same is true for all metal parts inside the engine. They all hydroplane on a thin layer of oil. If the oil thins out then the metal parts start rubbing together.
When synthetic oils first came out they could cause rubber seals inside the engine to leak but that's no longer a problem. Synthetic oils being sold on store shelves today should all meet current ILSAC GF-6 and API SP testing standards which includes making sure the motor oil won't damage rubber seals inside engines.
Video on if synthetic motor oil is safe to use in older engines.
Video comparing the inside of two engines with 1 million miles. One engine running conventional and the other synthetic.
I prefer to use oil filters that can filter out particles as small as 20 microns in size. I always change the filter and motor oil every 5,000 miles for naturally aspirated engines and 3,000 miles for turbo charged engines, or once a year. Whichever comes first because motor oil will oxidize and break down over time due to contamines in the engine mixing with the oil.
Here's a video of an engine losing horsepower due to low oil filter performance. Note they're using a special steel screen oil filter that's only seen in racing applications. They're not using a synthetic mesh media oil filter like the ones sold at retail stores like Walmart and Autozone. Lake Speed Jr. clarifies this on the video comments.
Here's an interesting oil filter testing channel. I'm not sure if their testing is 100% accurate, but I also see nothing that leads me to believe it's not accurate. I only pay attention the test results showing an oil filter's ability to filter out small micron particle sizes. I ignore the differential pressure and gallons per minute test results because I don't understand how to interpret those test results. I have no idea how many gallons per minute of oil my engine pumps at different RPMs. Without knowing this the gallon per minute test results are meaningless.
I'm going to give Valvoline Restore and Protect motor oil a try at my next oil change. I've hear good things about it.
@oskool Never mentioned it but bro!! Thanks for these cool links and info. Really means alot, and I feel encouraged by your help and support. Thanks !
Just use fully synthetic oil and change it every 5K miles. Better oil at the same price or even cheaper if you do the math. Best prices for synthetic oil is in Walmart and Amazon. Also, don't use the cheapest filters either. $3/quart conventional for 3,000 miles = $0.005 per mile. $5/quart synthetic for 5,000 miles = $0.005 per mile. Good luck!
@jvin I hear ya, I guess I assume fresher conventional oil changed more often is better ? Even though they say synthetic is better I guess on my 2008 with high miles, AND driving in 100% city/traffic driving in Minnesota which is freezing and classified as “extreme”, the Manuel states to do every 3,000 miles…..
@jvin I hear ya, I guess I assume fresher conventional oil changed more often is better ? Even though they say synthetic is better I guess on my 2008 with high miles, AND driving in 100% city/traffic driving in Minnesota which is freezing and classified as “extreme”, the Manuel states to do every 3,000 miles….. but I do NOT want to pay for synthetic every 3,000 miles…
Driving in extreme conditions means the oil and the filter get dirty faster so you need to change more often. If you are wary of and want to cut those recurring cost, shop around. As @imperator stated, by using Walmart's full synthetic SuperTech brand you accomplish both goals. It's cheaper than the price you quoted and an excellent oil.driving in 100% city/traffic driving in Minnesota which is freezing and classified as “extreme”, the Manuel states to do every 3,000 miles
Here's empirical evidence about the quality of Supertech's synthetic oil: https://youtu.be/j8tpRxQLqU0?t=760
@hixster Those are interesting test results! The low cost synthetic oil out performed the name brand conventional oil in every test. Another benefit of synthetic oil is it flows better during cold starts than conventional oil.
@Oskool I've too, have never heard of any blended oil outperforming a full synthetic oil. Amongst the brands he tested, the Super Tech oil was as good as, or better than, than the more expensive name-brand oils. Heck, it's a better oil at a lower price.
@hixster I'm no expert, but I think the concern with cold temperatures might be moisture condensing into the oil.
@MountainManJoe The vast majority of my driving is short trips so I'll often use 4th instead of the highest gear(6th) on my return trip. My logic is I'm helping get/keep the engine hot enough to burn off the condensation that builds up when I park her.. Wish Lake or someone of his caliber would address condensation in oil and possible remedies. For several months of the winter months here in S.C. we have 15-20 degree nights, 40-50 degree days.
I can pay $3 a quart for conventional, knowing I’ll change it every 3,000 miles
lets say it takes 5qt. You'll spend $75 on conventional oil over 15k.
I really would rather not pay $8 a quart for synthetic
it's $3.80/qt at Walmart and you can change it every 5k.
That means over 15k it will cost you a whopping $57. Less than your conventional.
According to their website, it seems the cheap conventional oil at Menards is
API SERVICE SP - RC
ILSAC GF-6A
I wonder if Scotty would recommend I at least “move up” to better filters…. If I’m sticking to my cheap conventional oil and changing it often….
yo Scotty—-what say you?
(I really would rather not pay $8 a quart for synthetic if I can pay $3 a quart for conventional, knowing I’ll change it every 3,000 miles like a clock cause Its easy, fun, & I’m in an extreme climate)
@ryanminnesota It looks like Scotty made a video responding to your question. https://youtube.com/shorts/oVPQ6PCpikk
@oskool Scotty didn't explicitly talk about conventional versus "synthetic". But I think he's right that ultimately it's the performance metrics that matter, not marketing jargon. In practice, I think car owners will find that conventional oils do not meet the highest specs we have today. Looking at O'Reilly's website, their conventional oil does not meet 'SN' service nor ILSAC GF6. The one in Scotty's video must be some kind of premium blend.
@imperator I agree it's best to purchase motor oil that meets the latest API SP standards. After seeing how slowly conventional oil flows in cold weather compared to synthetic oil. I wouldn't want to start my car in cold climates using conventional motor oil. https://youtu.be/tYkg0oDUXs8?t=330
This is great guys. There is a photo I want to show—-or attach but can’t…. It’s of a white “milkshake” looking fluid on my oil cap when I did my last oil change. It’s been around 0 degrees here the last 3 months in Minnesota, and some guys on this site told me cause of all my short (less than 3 mile city driving) trips, the film was due to condensation and not a head gasket issue (2008 4runner, not 03-05) So with that revelation, as well as the “cold start” wisdom and info y’all gave me, I will humbly admit—I was wrong. Saving a total of probably $3 per oil change on conventional Vs synthetic (I can buy in bulk from cost co, in cases of 4 five quart jugs of full synthetic for $69, with FREE delivery to my door step! Equals about 3 dollars and 50 cents per quart for full synthetic….. Menards conventional would only be a little cheaper. If I’m trying to make my 4th gen 4runner with 250,000 miles run forever—might as well convert to full synthetic and start babying it now. I thought my wife was the only one to prove me wrong 🙂 guess not. Thanks guys! I’ll buy you coffee if you’re ever driving through the Minneapolis MN area, or be your free Uber driver ! Hit me up. [personal information redacted]. (Seriously! )
There is a photo I want to show—-or attach but can’t
Did you read the topic pinned the top of the main page with the title "READ THIS FIRST - Forum Guide"?
some guys on this site told me cause of all my short (less than 3 mile city driving) trips, the film was due to condensation and not a head gasket issue
Short trips in freezing weather would do that.
Hit me up. ...
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It’s of a white “milkshake” looking fluid on my oil cap
the engine isn't being allowed to "stretch its legs". I recommend a bi-weekly or weekly Italian tune-up. (longer trip with high speeds to get the engine nice and hot for a prolonged period of time). The 5 minute all-city driving is going to shorten the life of your vehicle.
take the wife to St. Croix for ice cream or something.