This was recently asked on reddit, so I thought I'd ask the Scotty Kilmer & Associates braintrust.
What's the worst thing about how they make new cars now?
Unnecessary mechanical complexity
For some reason car manufactures decided everything needs to be Turbocharged, direct injected, also port injected, cooling systems must be run by an electric variable water pump with an electronically actuated thermostat, etc. - all of this, effecting even Toyota is horrible, it doesn't add anything meaningful to the ownership experience other than repairs being super expensive and problems with diagnosing this crap.
Lack Of Quality
Old cars used to be build with solid metal parts, most modern cars are built out of cheap materials under the hood - this includes Toyotas and the entire industry.
Not Being "Mechanically Bulletproof"
Not so long ago, maybe just a decade ago - you could rock back and fourth on a Corolla in the sand/snow, you could shift at higher rpm, drive however you wanted in traffic - today? with a CVT? you can't - these new cars are built to be used in specific ways and do not allow you to do whatever you want.
(Even stuff like a lot of old cars, including Corollas, they had the engine pan above the front subframe meaning that if you bang your underside you didn't have to worry about it too much - on new cars, to save weight, the engine pan is only protected by some plastic, a lot of engine pans nowadays ARE plastic!)
All of these points are: looks and numbers over being good to own and use!
In addition there is:
Cheeping out on basic 'nice to have'
A lot of modern cars from legacy manufactures do not include basic features that would positively affect the ownership experience and would not have a negative effect on durability. There's a long list of little features that cost nothing to include, yet car manufactures do not.
And ridiculous bodywork, ridiculous service intervals, tiny tire sidewalls, etc.
And a huge pet peeve of mine not having those additional AC air direction options.
Dan, I agree with all those points. Do you think it just won’t make sense to own new cars at some point? They are expensive, cost a fortune to repair, hard to work on and troubleshoot, etc.
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Who can afford to buy a new car these days?
@DayWalker , I think that the absolute majority of 2023 cars are built to last 150k / 10-15 years of average use before becoming expensive to keep on the road.
Most car buyers sell their cars just after a few years, even with Toyota the average new car buyer keeps their brand new Toyota for 7 years - so it's not going to matter for them, only for the 2nd/3rd/4th owner.
Who the hell can afford to buy a new car every few years or even 7 years?
@DayWalker - New Toyota buyers apparently.
https://cartelligent.com/how-long-do-people-keep-different-car-brands/
44% of new Toyota buyers end up replacing their car in under 5 years.
27% keep their Toyotas more than 10 years, so I guess I fit in the 27%.
Yeah but they get to sell more cars when they fall apart faster.
They are not built to last like the older days.
Not equipping some with a spare tire.
sadly, I think most people now wouldn't even have a clue how to put it on.
As in, “Dude… yer car came with lug nuts? I hear they’re great roasted and paired with a nice Pinot Noir.” 😁
My philosophy is anything that's supposed to save the environment doesn't save my wallet from repair bills.
Things such as...
1. Plastic craps
2. "Fuel saving" technologies such as auto start/stop. Piston deactivation, EVs!
It can be said for almost all brands.
My biggest thing wrong imho is the lack of tactile feedback and touchscreen everything, especially the AC. Our eyes need to be more on the road and less on finding the location of things to adjust. It takes longer to fiddle through menus and the touchscreen, than to have dedicated buttons, sliders, or knobs for the AC. There was a certain craftsmanship back in the day to the detail of tactile feedback. But that is gone.
Basically, it is fundamentally useless electronic crap that costs a fortune to fix when it goes wrong, and it does go wrong. All of that needs to be taken apart, first, before you can get to the actual source of the problem, then, you gotta put it all back together again.
My '99 Ranger is around the peak of Ford, easy to take apart when it's time, and easy to put back together. No messing with transmission switches that you need to take your eyes of the road in order to change gears, etc. Mechanical levers are a good thing, too. Something is physically not letting you change gears if you don't want to, and requires human intervention, not some electronic thing that might go haywire. Everything wants to be like space, again.
To @Dan 's affect, my wife's Mustang and my Mustang went through the exact same pothole, going 70 mph around 5 years ago. Her tire blew out. Mine didn't because I had fatter sidewalls. We both have stock tires, but hers are 18" rims, mine are 17" rims.
My and my wife's Mustangs are 2017s and they still have regular shifter columns. Almost all of them seem to be switching to buttons to shift into gears now.
You said low profile tires (in otherwords, thinner wheels). Tires with the same diameter and wider rims mean lower profile tires, which is exactly what you said. It is 100% related to newer cars, lol.
Ignore Dan. I hate those same things Justin . The ridiculous blingy wheels. The pointlessly compllicated electronic push button shifters. And those old Rangers were the bees knees.
My father-in-law's new Mitsubishi is a hybrid between a regular shifter column and an electronic one, for some reason. It stands upright, but the shifter controls are really weird. It's not self-explanatory. My father-in-law couldn't shift it at first. He's gotten used to it, but it's definitely not for me, lol. I like physical connections between certain things.
Oh I thought this a comment on a previous discussion.
My bad - I definitely though this was a comment on a previous discussion I had on the forum.
Sorry, I agree with most of the things you posted.
Yeah I agree that wheels need to have a reasonable sidewall,
but as far as shifters yeah, a lot of modern cars have really shifters - even the ones with a traditional shifters.
Sorry, @justin-shepherd .
No worries.
Nice topic, there are many.
Will cover the ones that can be costly and dangerous.
I see so many modern cars at night with their taillights off. When I get close to see inside, I see that their dashboard is lit, the front lights are bright. They have no idea their back lights are off. I think it’s cars with Auto light feature? This is so dangerous.
Cars with auto sense rain wipers. I have that feature and fear that someday I start the car with wiper blades frozen to the windshield… a disaster just waiting to happen.
They have gone to far with features that they think are good but at the end can be dangerous.
Obsolescence Risk because of how quickly tech changes. As technology rapidly evolves, specific car models may become obsolete more quickly due to outdated technology or because manufacturers cease support for older software systems. And overall, this makes the vehicle too expensive and a mismatch for its purpose. It's supposed to be a medium of transportation, not a giant computer on wheels.
Do you have a concrete example of this?
New cars are already giant computers. My 2017 Mustang detects whether or not there's a passenger in the right seat and it will chime the seat belt alert until you actually put the seat belt on, if you don't put it on right away..
Unfortunately, yes, we are already there. Now I wonder how long it will take them to get AIs into the OBD systems. I would be surprised if the automakers are not already trying. What I meant about a vehicle being obsolete was when the age and cost of replacing parts start to reach half the car's value. Usually cars from the 70's and earlier. One good example is carburetors, and it's almost impossible to find someone who knows how to work on them anymore. One the other end of the spectrum I think the Mercedes-Benz company uses the most electronics in their vehicles. I like the cars from the 60s and 70s but I know we can't go back to simpler times.
ok but how does software support factor into your car being able to run?
When I do delivery driving, I mark down the places that have cars I may want to buy in the future.
I will put up with the troubles of stuff getting old, rather than all the stuff they deal with on the new ones.
I got my eye on a red matrix owned by an elderly lady, I don't think she uses it much any more.
Got to plan ahead. 😆
Electronic emergency brake / parking brake.
I learned recently from watching Scotty that I can’t do my own rear brakes any longer because of electronic parking brake. I’m grateful for Scotty’s lessons though, so I can skip the rear brakes and avoid the potential of crushing my fingers.
