Hi, recently I’ve been in the market for purchasing a car due to the fact I stupidly bought a used 2014 Kia Optima 2 years ago with 60,000 miles that seemed to run perfectly fine with no issues but decided to completely cease up on me back in June of this year. I definitely want to purchase a car brand new as I want to be in 100% control of the maintenance and have a goal to keep this car for a minimum of 10 years. I’ve dialed my selection down to the 2022 Toyota corollas but I am unsure if I should pick the LE Hybrid or SE trim model. The hybrid seems very attractive to me with the super high 53 MPG combined gas mileage but honestly the SE isn’t too far behind with its 31/40 Gas mileage. The SE trim is also about $2000 cheaper with the same exact options as the hybrid. I tend to put a LOT of miles on my car (over 20,000 a year on average) with how much I drive for work and for visiting mine and my wife’s families all over the country so I’m just not too sure if the hybrid would really be the best option with my goal of having some extreme longevity with this new car. So what’s your opinion? 2022 Corolla hybrid LE OR 2022 Corolla SE? Thank you!
I wrote this for a RAV4 ICE vs Hybrid. But the same logic carries over for a Corolla.
To Hybrid or Not To Hybrid
I personally like hybrids. At the same time, I don’t think a hybrid is for everyone. It may fit your needs, it may not.
I have a 2004 Toyota Prius, that has 299,999+ miles. It’s been an amazing vehicle. The battery did need to be changed at 275,000 miles.
Hybrids in general are a more complex system. There is an Internal Combustion Engine. There is an Electric Motor. There is an eCVT which figures out the power it is is getting from the ICE and/or Electric Motor to transfer to the wheels. There is the cooling systems, systems with an s, one for the ICE, one for the Electric Motor. And of course, there is the biggest concern, the hybrid battery (traction battery).
At the same time, with all the complexity, the vehicle is somewhat simplified. There is no stand alone starter. There is no stand alone alternator. The Electric Motor acts as both starter and the alternator. On top of all that, when the ICE is on, the energy generated never* gets wasted like when a traditional ICE car is sitting in idle. And on top of all that, the electric motor / eCVT help slow down the car when it regenerates electricity, also saving wear and tear on the actual brakes.
Drivetrain technology aside, the question returns to how much will one be spending on repairs and maintenance on the life of the vehicle, as compared to the ICE.
Here is a spreadsheet that attempts to give a good idea of the break even mileage. How many miles would one need to drive the car, given the price of the vehicles, the price of gas? (We can even add an expected maintenance cost as well).
Strangely enough, this spreadsheet is for the RAV4.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-bVho8e_wwS-9oU_et-SPaqGYyqXH0ZTX7-euJiKRCk/edit?usp=sharing
One tab just takes the averages of highway and city MPG. The other tab, provides 5 different scenarios as a mental exercise.
My general recommendation just guestimating (I haven’t delved too deeply) at the spreadsheet data, generally speaking, to get the best bang for your buck, either with a hybrid or ICE RAV4.
Get the ICE RAV4:
If you plan on owning the car for less than 100,000 miles.
If you plan on driving nearly 100% on the freeway.
If you only drive your car around 5,000 miles per year. (Hybrids don’t like to sit around, they need to be exercised.)
Get the Hybrid RAV4:
If you plan on owning the car for more than 100,000 miles.
If you plan on driving 100% city, 75% city, 50% city, 25% city.
If you drive a ton per year, especially stop and go traffic.
Get either:
If you plan on owning it more than 200,000 miles. (While you will save on gas, it may equal out in terms of changing the battery. Most of the Prius stories I hear seems to be able to get at least ~225,000 out of it. Some less mileage, most folks more.)
These suggestions may change depending on gas prices and battery prices, but I think this gives a good rough estimate of how to go about it.
Thank you very much for the information! This is super in depth. I’m definitely at least WANTING to keep the car for well over 200k miles since buying it brand new (especially in this market) is going to be a big chunk of change. I really really do like the concept of hybrids especially with that amazing gas mileage. As far as how I drive my cars I’ll definitely be giving a hybrid model enough “exercise” lol. I drive from south GA to Northern SC about 3 or 4 times a year to visit family not to mention the trips I take to VA and TX every couple of years but besides those trips I mainly do most of my driving in the city rather than on the highway/interstate. Considering that the battery should last at least 200k miles maybe more if it’s taken care of well I think the gas savings might be worth the $2,000 extra I would be spending up front since at least in city driving (which is my main type of driving) the hybrid model gets over 20 MPG more than the SE model. I’m definitely going to do some more research on this and get some more opinions but this was some super helpful info. Thank you!
since you put on a lot of mileage, and you value fuel economy, then the hybrid might be a good option. Who knows if gas prices will get even worse.
Just be aware that in 10-15 yrs you will be stuck with a $5-6k bill for a new battery.
Also be aware that you're going to have to wait. Talk to your dealer because they may not get any for at least a year.
Pass on the hybrid, go for the SE. Less electronic junk to go bad.
even the gassers are loaded with electronics these days doc. Are you sure they have less? I'm not so sure.
The Toyota hybrids are pretty solid.
I'm sure they are pretty solid @mmj but not in my lifetime.
lets have a think about what you said ....
A combustion engine has electronics to manage fuel storage and delivery. Electronics to manage air delivery. Electronics for the exhaust.... for the ignition ... tons more electronics for the transmission...
What does the electric propulsion side have .... a battery, a motor controller, and a cooling system. It does away with a lot of peripheral stuff.
And yes I realize that hybrids have it all. But it seems to me the combustion end might actually have more that can go wrong. What am I missing?
I'm going to need to special order the car to be built for me
Japanese automakers such as Toyota and Honda do not do special orders; they are based on an allocation system meaning whatever the manufacturer allocates to the dealership is what they get. And you put your name on an incoming allocation. You have to be lenient on the color and options if you want to have a better chance at getting the car sooner. With the current high gasoline prices hybrids have a longer wait so know what to expect.
Do you know if I can request the car to specifically be made in japan?
There's no special order in the first place and the car will be built at any manufacturing plant in this case Toyota uses for making the Corolla for this U.S. market. Remember regardless of where the car is manufactured it is Toyota quality and that's what matters. Toyota has been manufacturing other cars in the U.S. too and it's normal.
The hybrid has, as you said, battery, motor controller, cooling system AND the motor itself. Combine that with the ICE and all it's systems and for my money, that's 5 more things that can and will go south in addition to the ICE stuff. All electric? Great. All ICE, semi-great. Hybrid? No thanks.
I know ... it seems logical, in theory.
In practice .... I see a lot of happy owners.... Owners who are left with more money in their pocket than me.
Some days it's the candy, some days it's the wrapper. @mmj. We are all just bugs on the windshield of life.
@mmj I'm laughing so hard I can barely breathe.
I as well. Thank you for the umm ... wisdom 😆
@mmj What do your mean..."umm?" You know wisdom when you hear it.
It sure sounds like pseudo-confucianism. I'm just letting it ... soak in.
Don’t let it soak in for too long, otherwise you’re gonna be..
The other issue is not many mechanics work on hybrids, so in the future if something goes wrong with the hybrid system who is going to work on it? I would hate to go to the dealer for any issues out of warranty. It’s hard enough finding competent mechanics to work on ICE vehicles; with hybrids that number is even less.
I have a feeling the hybrid would be better. You can save gas for when you need it and well, it's Toyota so as long as you get the ones made in Japan instead of those piece of junks from mexico, then more than likely it would last over 15 years with it being toyota.
I have already spoken with the dealership and either way I'm going to need to special order the car to be built for me since literally NO ONE has new cars on their lot anywhere around me. Do you know if I can request the car to specifically be made in japan? If not I'll just ask my salesperson when I talk to them but just something I've been wondering.