White House has okayed the use of increase in ethanol in gas. What effect does that have on your car's performance and mileage? Do you have to have a flex car?
I think you may have misinterpreted what is happening.
Basically they are extending the usage and availability of E15:
Continue to use the E10 fuel you've (probably) been using.
Make sure not to use the E15 fuel and you will not notice any issues.
Here's how it works:
Read your manual first, and only use the maximum amount of ethanol laced gasoline stated in the book.
If it's E10 only, stick with E10 fuels.
If it's E15, that level of ethanol would be fine to use.
If you have a flex fuel vehicle, you can you can run all fuels up to and including E85.
thanks for the clarification
Also bear in mind that manufacturers generally specify no more than 10% ethanol to be used. Using a 15% blend may damage fuel system components and void the warranty. (If government tells you it won't hurt anything they're lying, as usual.)
Unless you have a race car, or flex fuel vehicle , your engine wasn’t designed to burn ethanol
It would be quite expensive if you can find parts compatible with both the vehicle and ethanol. I suppose it's doable if you really wanted to do it, at least on the fuel side of things. Fuel lines, fuel pumps, fuel rails, etc. all rubber components, fuel injectors... all would need to be swapped out for ethanol-tolerant parts. The biggest problem will come from the computer and O2 sensors. If the car wasn't programmed to recognize E85, it will throw check engine lights, no matter how ethanol-proof you make the motor.
My opinion, scratch that whole idea, it's a rat's nest of problems and hassle to overhaul an engine to tolerate high ethanol content. Look for flex fuel capable vehicles from that era. They do actually exist, hiding in plain sight sometimes. My 1999 Ford Ranger is flex fuel capable but it'snot badged anywhere except the inside of the gas door. It says Ethanol or Unleaded gas only, and the VIN codes it as being flex fuel capable. I didn't even know E85 was a thing back then.
I was assuming he was talking about E10. Not a lot of compatibility problems with that, and in general the parts that would be affected are due to be changed on an older vehicle anyway. E85 is a horse of a different color entirely.
I'm not in favor of contaminating gas with ethanol and believe it to be yet another government boondoggle maintained primarily due to lobbyists. However I have not experienced any problems with E10.
Agreed!
I took it as he was expecting the ethanol content to increase as time goes on. I think cars are designed for the E10 tolerance anyways and have been since the late 70s, as you know. Haha. I've heard they keep bringing up turning E10 into E15 standard and thought maybe he was thinking of that. I agree they do need to stop messing with this kind of thing. It's not saving us any money, it'll actually cost us more thanks to the lower energy content of E15, lol. I've also never run E85 in my truck. I have no clue what it would do, even if it is set up from Ford to handle it.
We've had ethanol-laced gasoline in the U.S. a long time now and I have had no issues due to it even in cars from the 1960s and 1970s. At that age all the rubber parts need replacing anyway and the replacements will be ethanol-compatible. I have not had any problems at all with my 1990s vehicles, though 30-year-old rubber fuel system parts should be replaced in any event.
Just another way for The Man to try to control you. Vote the bums out!
Totally agree. I would if I could, but I suspect we're gonna have to deal with this for a couple of years and I definitely don't want to be doing anything to cause harm to my engines if I can avoid it.
Some of your 4 vehicles may be sitting with the same gas in them for a fairly long period of time. In my experience, the more ethanol, the more problems with the gas absorbing water and gummy deposits. I use fuel stabilizer (Sta-Bil, usually) in anything where the gas is going to sit for more than a month - lawn mowers, boats, chainsaws, etc., and it helps.
Only thing I ever did was rebuild the carburetors with the new, green Viton o rings and seals.
What can I do to protect my vehicles?
Not much, I've read they've done a similar thing in the UK and a lot of older cars just don't run right on that new blend. Just try to find a place that will still sell good gas and with no ethanol in it.
Theortically, it should drop your gas mileage comparing to the fuels with less ethanol.
Would you recommend any additives to maintain my engine while these blends are implemented?
E10 is not being eliminated, E15 is just being permitted for the summer months, it is strictly optional. Stick with gas stations selling E10 fuel and you'll be fine.
Every car that's made today is designed for E10 gas, ethanol has been put in gasoline since the 1970s, it replaced tetraethy lead as a knock control agent (the chemical that made leaded gas what it was), among other reasons. They've been making cars that tolerate some ethanol content for a long time. Your owner's manual will tell you what is acceptable for the non Flex-fuel vehicles.
Straight gasoline may have too low of an octane rating and could knock. If it has a higher octane rating than "regular" gas (E10) you might be able to use it. I would double check with your owners manual or check with a dealership.
You don't need to do anything with the flex fuel vehicle. It can run on fuel that's up to 85% ethanol based.
My manual says concentrations up to 10%. That doesn't address what happens if we get to a point where all that's being produced is E15. The concern is it looks like the actions of the last few days by the EPA/Biden administration are signaling that we are about to shift to E15 for the long haul, which seems problematic.
The non-ethanol gas I use in the mowers is rated at 90 octane if I recall correctly.
Based on the terminology "concentrations up to 10%", it can probably take E0 gas. A dealer will be able to say for sure. My 2017 Mustang says E0-E15 around the filler neck, so some newer cars are designed for the E15 standard.
Yeah, E15 makes me nervous. And all for 10 cents a gallon? Even higher-priced food thanks to the new demand for corn. And less MPG.......geez. This can't be over soon enough.
If that measure goes through all of us except those with flex-fuel vehicles are going to wind up with fuel system problems down the road. The politicians and bureaucrats are lying when they claim that all vehicles made after 2001 will be OK with E15.
Luckily my DD is flex fuel capable. I didn't know that technology existed in 1999, but my Ranger is listed as a flex fuel. Ford hid an unleaded gasoline or ethanol fuel only sticker on the gas door, and a VIN check on the federal site confirmed it as flex fuel. Why were they introducing that so early? Regular gas was maybe $1.25-$1.50 back then.
I've forgotten at this point but it was probably some politician or EPA bureaucrat pushing the idea of being able to use biofuel.
So it sounds as though we all just need to bend over and brace. So much crap.
Unfortunately that's about the size of it. If the only gasoline available is going to be E15 we have to live with crappy running cars getting less gas mileage and suffering from corroding fuel systems over time.
Of course you could make the politicians and bureaucrats doubleplusgood happy by pulling 50 or 60 thousand dollars or more out of your back pocket and buy a shiny new electric car. (Hey, if you don't have that handy there's always the electric bus, right?)
My manual says concentrations up to 10%. That doesn't address what happens if we get to a point where all that's being produced is E15
Mine kinda does, rough translation to English:
"may cause drivability problems and damage to the fuel system, engine control system and emission control system"
In general when they're talking about other bad fuels, the examples of possible technical issues they list are:
"... misfires, poor acceleration, stalling, melting of the catalytic converter, and abnormal corrosion, ..."
The main issues, as it seems, are damage to the cat but mostly corrosion
(a lot of modern cars struggle with even with regular fuel, like Toyota's EGR systems)
Luckily I won't have to check what actually happens since where I live all of the gas has 0 ethanol and it costs the same $8.5 a gallon, the same as it did 5-6 hears ago...
Here in Slovakia (Europe) the government has passed a law in recent days which states that bioethanol in gasoline will rise gradually in percentage up to 11,4 % (2030 levels)
I could not find anything. Do you have a link?
Are governments trying to damage our cars on purpose?
The ostensible reasoning is:
‘The conclusion we have reached is that all the vehicles coming onto the market and those since 2011 should be able to handle fuels with up to 20% ethanol,’ said Ortwin Costenoble, a senior standardisation consultant at the Royal Netherlands Standardization Institute (NEN), which led the project. ‘We were working on the basis that in 2030, countries would adopt E20 as the main source of fuel.’
I don't have any data myself which confirms or denies this research.
My vehicle has a Flex Fuel enabled engine (capable of using up to 85% ethanol blended gasoline using larger fuel injectors). It was standard equipment.
Here in North America I see quite a few FF vehicles (22M according to govt) , especially for the commercial market.
hello my name is Adam. I will buy a chevrolet alero v6 from 1999. for 1000 dollars. in sweden, petrol will be changed from 95 to. e10. can i run on that petrol or can i get the engine faulty because it has ethanol in it
All gasoline-powered vehicles can use E10 safely.
We've had E10 in the U.S. for ages. It's a boondoggle and a shame more countries are going that way, but I have not seen any problems with car engines and I have some very old vehicles. It does burn a little cleaner but on the other hand gas mileage is reduced a little bit.
Hi Scotty (and forum),
As the title suggests - lets say I get a car from the 90s. Can I pull it apart and line all the parts that get eaten up by ethanol with something permanent?. If I get a gas guzzler, and start factoring in the weekly cost of ethanol treatment, it can get pretty high. But lets say it's about £1000 a year; that's probably worth it for a car that will last forever. But it just annoys me that the government can mandate this petrol that potentially damages cars, and as usual the only way to combat it is by giving them more money.
{black}:displeased:
Thanks for the detailed replies folks. I should have been more specific in excluding E85, but I expect the government of the UK will move towards E85 anyway in the future. As of now they've comitted to E10 in regular petrol/gasoline and E5 in super unleaded. But apparently they'll be moving over to E10 in both by 2025.
That's a big year for us in the UK (on an unrelated note) it's really when they want to start bumping off grannies and old folks in general by moving towards sky-high energy costs in general and freezing them all to death in their homes.
So yeah, they had no qualms about killing off the old folks with Covid, next it'll be gas to heat the home, so they'll likely move up to stronger ethanol content in the years ahead.
But if I get a car that'll last +500,000 miles at 20,000 miles or so, I'd probably make the investment. Also might try something like this: http://www.ethanil.co.uk/
I'm really popular with the greenies. {black}:laughingoutloud:
I run a VW from 1974, dual carbs
95 F150
95 Aerostar BTW ,350k and counting.
2009 Kawasaki KLR 650, carborator,
I am concerned by the announcement this morning that the president is going to allow 15% ethanol in the gasoline.
What can I do to protect my vehicles?
change fuel lines
fwiw 15% has been available for awhile
Ethanol is going up in gas content, what can we use to protect the seals?
Hey Scotty,
I have a 2016 Subaru Forester Limited, with 42K miles and I'm loving it. Oil regularly changed with multi-point inspection my a trust worthy mechanic.
I'm concerned about the increase ethanol blends coming soon as how that will negatively impact my vehicle.
Would you recommend any additives to maintain my engine while these blends are implemented?
Here in Slovakia (Europe) the government has passed a law in recent days which states that bioethanol in gasoline will rise gradually in percentage up to 11,4 % (2030 levels). I know this is a move to reduce emissions, but will this hurt engines? I have a brand new Škoda Fabia 2022 with 5,880 km and the owner´s manual says "bioethanol mixture should not exceed 10%".
Should I be concerned? Are governments trying to damage our cars on purpose? Sorry if this sound a bit paranoid or anything, but I recall widespread problems when E10 was introduced here in 2020. Simply, I cannot imagine cars running on E15. Over here I am seeing cars (mainly older ones) having problems with fuel injection systems, hoses breaking, water in the engine etc. - all from "just" E10.
A lot of older cars still on the road today cannot use this fuel which leaves the drivers paying for premium gas if they want to drive their cars without any damage being done to the vehicle.
In fact, I checked some owner´s manuals of some other manufacturers, namely Nissan, Toyota, or Chevrolet, went the "Fuel" section, and all of these manuals stated E10 is the maximum gasoline-ethanol blend the engine can take before long-term damage.
Do I have a feeling this is staged? Is this safe? Everybody´s nuts about electric now but I don´t think this is the way to go. This not fair. People don´t want electric cars.
Does somebody have an idea on this, please?
I want to know more.
Christian.
So I am reading that in the last few days we've gone from the waiver to "allow" E15 to be sold during the summer to we now have an EPA mandate setting ethanol levels in gas to 15% for what appears to be the long-term, at least for 2022. It's been difficult to find specifics on this, especially since I understand most gas stations aren't equipped to handle it. But if this is the case and E15 is set to become the new "norm" at gas stations across the country, what does it mean for our car engines? My wife's vehicle is a Flexfuel compatible car, but my other two are not (one a 2010 and one a 2011).
Should we have concerns over E15? I have access to non-ethanol gas which I religiously use in my lawn mower, but is that suitable or good for a modern ICE (I have read that it may not be)?
Please try a search before posting. Thanks.
The politicians and bureaucrats are lying when they claim that all vehicles made after 2001 will be OK with E15.
They definitely are lying big times. My 2022 Civic (both the 2.0L NA and the 1.5L turbocharged) explicitly state in the owners manual that the fuel has to be 87 or higher. Not looking forward to the new 15 percent ethanol at all.
People with newer vehicles will likely find their warranties null and void, at least for the fuel system, when they use the stuff. Of course it won't ruin everything overnight, it will take time. For older vehicles CNG conversions are looking better all the time.
Yeah I agree that it won't ruin everything overnight, but I think if they start mandating 15 percent ethanol we won't be going back to the regular 10 percent anytime soon (in other words would be there long enough to cause problems on cars). Basically the government making mandates and experimenting at the expense of people.
They really have no concept of reality. I'm not just saying that. Quite a few years ago I visited my "representatives" along with some others. It quickly became apparent that the politicians in Washington do not live in the real world that the rest of us experience. (People say that all the time but it is another thing to actually see it for one's self.) You are correct about experimentation. They regard us essentially as a laboratory in which to test out their pet theories without much regard for what happens to the lab rats in the process. That was the major takeaway from the visit and it was quite a sobering experience.
Totally agree with you. They live in a "separate world" which is nothing near reality thus they can't really even represent any of us living in the real world.
I asked a similar question recently. Decided to look into it further, and came across an article that stated that only 1.5% of gas stations are even equipped to store and dispense it. I’m hoping it’s just another political talking point to make it look like they are solving the problem, and nothing comes of it.
Well I definitely hope it stays at the talking level and doesn't end up at the pumps (or at least only that 1.5% can sell it only). I'm not looking forward to paying high gas prices for more ethanol and damage to my car fuel system over time.