Hi. I have a 66 Mustang 289 with 35k miles. I replaced a valve lifter (a wrong one was inside that caused a ticking noise!). I've put new manifold gaskets, reassembled everything. I changed the oil and filter and the coolant too. The engine refused to start. I thought that I reassembled the distributor incorrectly but it wasn't the case. Then I noticed that a ground wire was disconnected. I reconnected it but the engine is still refusing to start. I tried many times to start the engine. Is it possible that I flooded it or did I something else wrong? I'm starting to be frustrated.
If the engine is flooded to the point where it won't start I'd expect you'd find the spark plugs are wet with gas. You'd probably also notice a strong smell of gasoline at the carb. If it's been running too rich for any length of time the plugs will be badly carboned up.
If you've been working on the distributor check the point gap and static timing and that firing order is correct. Check to see if there's spark.
I didn't touch the ignition points but yes, I need to do the timing again. I'm not familiar to the point gap.
I didn't touch the ignition points but yes, I need to do the timing again. I'm not familiar to the point gap.
You really should get a shop manual, they're readily available for purchase online.
I have an old Chilton manual covering that car which has all the specifications. It calls for a point gap of .017 (dwell of 27 degrees if you have a dwell meter). Spark plug gap is .034.
For standard-issue 289 V8s with 2 or 4 barrel carb the timing is set at 6 degrees before top dead center at idle, with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged. With high-performance 289 timing is set to 12 degrees BTDC. (With engine not running just set static timing at that figure and fine tune it once running.) Remember that any time you adjust the points that also affects the ignition timing.
Many years ago I had a 1966 Fairlane with 289 V8, essentially the same under the skin as the Mustang (both based on the Falcon platform). I recall it being quite easy to work on.
OK I've put it on 13 degrees on the cylinder 1 compression cycle. I inserted the distributor way down and it's pointing to the back as I've seen on many YT videos. I don't have a test light. I checked it with a voltmeter and the volts remain constant.
The distributor should be adjusted so the points are just opening up with the engine set to the desired initial timing and rotor pointing to #1 cylinder. A test light is convenient for this but a voltmeter will do as well.
Thanks. I forgot to put the key on ON!
It sparked and the volts dropped to almost 0.05. The engine doesn't though. It coughs and then nothing. Spark plug of cylinder 1 was wet and is black.
Sure sounds like too much fuel. When is the last time the carb was serviced?
I don't know. It doesn't smell like gasoline strongly though.
I don't know.
All right so at this point if I understand you correctly it appears you have the static ignition timing set and are getting spark, however there is far too much fuel getting to the engine. Sounds like carb overhaul time.
One test you might try is to dry out the engine by leaving choke and throttle plate open for a while, replace (or at least clean up) the fouled spark plugs, and spray a little starting fluid down the intake. If all else is OK the engine should fire up at least briefly. Since the carb is suspected of dumping in excess fuel don't let it run long, you don't want to foul up the plugs again.,
Thanks for your advice. Can't I adjust the carburetor to run a bit leaner?
You can try but the adjustment screws are mainly for controlling the idle mixture. If the carb is dumping as much gas down the engine as the plugs suggest the carb likely has internal problems, possibly due to ethanol-laced fuel. Could be as simple as a bad needle valve letting the float level get way too high, maybe it has a leaky power valve (very common on Autolite/Motorcraft carbs), or some other internal issue. Remember these cars run "open loop", there is no feedback mechanism to control the mixture when things get a bit out of whack.
I like the starter fluid suggestion. Could narrow down the possibilities if it runs
Yes, if the engine lights off with starter fluid that eliminates a whole host of other possibilities. From the description I strongly suspect that carb needs rebuilding but obviously it's hard to be certain without hands on the vehicle.
One spark plug is crooked and I'm having a hard time to remove it. The 21mm deep socket drive can't go deep in and I can't remove it. Any suggestion on how to proceed?
One spark plug is crooked and I'm having a hard time to remove it. The 21mm deep socket drive can't go deep in and I can't remove it. Any suggestion on how to proceed?
If the spark plug is crooked then it must be cross-threaded. Not good and that's going to be another problem to deal with. You need to find a thin-wall spark plug socket that can get in there to remove it.
The problem is that the spark plug has been inserted correctly but the spark plug is not straight...
Are you saying that the plug body is threaded correctly into the cylinder head but the insulator is broken? Can you post a photo?
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can take a picture later
@chucktobias I straightened the spark plug but the hex is rounded out. What is the best way to remove it?
You can't "straighten" the ceramic insulator. You'll need a deep socket designed for damaged fastener removal if the hex part of the plug is rounded. There's obviously something very wrong with that plug, I really don't know what you're dealing with there.
@chucktobias Is it possible to weld a bolt on it and remove it?
Maybe if you have enough room to work.
@chucktobias Today I received the tool needed. I finally managed to pull it out, even though the ceramic broke off. The spark plug has been inserted incorrectly. I will have to repair the thread. But I don't think that the carburetor is bad. The manifold gasket was worn and there was some coolant in the oil. That is why I changed the oil and filter and have put a new gasket. Is it possible that this made the spark plugs wet? Speaking of a great mechanic this guy was, he even has put a wrong valve lifter that I replaced already.
The spark plug has been inserted incorrectly. I will have to repair the thread.
You don't want to get metal shavings in the cylinder. The best way to repair spark plug threads is to remove the cylinder head. However, careful use of a back tap can sometimes clean up threads without getting crap in the cylinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njkT3TW3kKk
there was some coolant in the oil.
Maybe a bad head gasket or cracked cylinder head?
Is it possible that this made the spark plugs wet?
Hard to see how. The only liquids that could get to the plug would be oil, coolant, or gasoline. I don't think a a bad manifold gasket would result in any of those.
@chucktobias I don't think they are bad, since the bill of the engine re-builder mentions a new head gasket.
Thanks for the video. Will any kind of grease do?
Given your experiences with that mechanic so far I would not count on the new head gasket being installed properly, if a new one was installed at all. Any kind of tacky grease should work with the back tap, but if you buy one see if they have a specific recommendation.
@chucktobias That's true. Perhaps a radiator stop leak could temporarily fix it.
You might want to test for a head gasket leak with one of those kits that checks for combustion gases in the coolant. If there is a head gasket leak and you're looking for a temporary bandaid, Scotty has recommended the Bar's Leaks head gasket sealer. (Unfortunately it sounds like that "rebuilder" did some real shoddy work.)
@chucktobias I've put the brand new spark plugs. The car cranks but doesn't start. I checked the voltage of the battery and it is 12.4
Not much to go wrong on those, unlike modern cars. Check spark and fuel delivery.
@chucktobias Now that I'm thinking about the spark, could it be that ground wire on the top engine went loose again because it is too short.
@chucktobias I reconnected that wire and tried to start the car. There was a bang from exhaust. What now?
Check everything over again, particularly ignition timing. It's a simple setup but it all has to be adjusted correctly, there are no sensors or computers to compensate.
@chucktobias OK I will do it. But is it possible that the ignition coil is bad?
Test it. I've also seen a bad condenser cause backfiring through the exhaust, once so bad that it blew the muffler off.
The head of the distributor was misaligned...
OK, I reassembled the whole engine and did correct the timing issue.
I did a simple vacuum test on cylinder 1, since it is at its highest to do some tests. I don't have the gauges. I've put an old cloth around the hose and inserted it. The pressure was at 20PSI but some air still came out from it. There were no bubbles in the coolant, no air coming from the dipstick and vacuum lines. Is that sufficient enough to know that there are no major leaks and may I start the engine? I don't want any oil contamination again, or getting stranded somewhere.
Can anyone help me?
@bob81 I really don't understand what you're doing. Have you performed a compression or leakdown test on all cylinders?
I don't have the hose that you screw inside the spark plug. I only used a normal hose and sealed it the best I could with old cloth. It is only for having an idea if there is a major leak.
@bob81 You can probably borrow one of those from a parts store like AutoZone.
OK. I will do that. But I've found this interesting video on how to build one yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WukO9adv0cs
@bob81 Looks like that adapter should work as long as the epoxy holds. However to do a proper leakdown test you need the gauge set that will tell you the percentage of pressure loss in the cylinder. (Without the gauges you can still check for gross leakage into intake, exhaust, or cooling system by ear and eye.)
I've bought a tester on Amazon, 50 bucks though. I did a leak down test today and it shows 10%. They say that new cars have 20%. But I did add silicone in addition to the gaskets, just to be sure. May I trust that result?
@bob81 10% leakage is a good reading. (It's never going to be perfect.)
Yes, I know that but I was surprised that it is so good on a 57 years old car.
I tried to start the car and it misfired. One of the two clips that retain the distributor head is broken. Is it possible to repair it?
@bob81 If the clip itself is broken it needs to be replaced. You should be able to find one, those distributors were used in millions of cars.
They don't look like that they can be replaced...
@bob81 I'd have to look at one and I don't have anything here with a Ford distributor. I'd be surprised though if there were no way to replace those clips.
Is it OK to use zip ties instead?
@bob81 There's a roll pin holding the clip onto the distributor body. If you tap that out with a drift or punch you can replace the clip. This video demonstrates a method of removal if the pin is stubborn, which it may well be after being in place for decades:
@bob81 It might be OK to use zip ties if you don't mind having the distributor cap pop off at random and the engine suddenly dying in a possibly bad situation. Much better to do a proper repair.
I tried to start the engine with the zip tie. The engine cranks and then suddenly stops... Bad starter??
I replaced the ground cable that goes straight to the engine too...
@bob81 Maybe. Make sure you can turn the engine over by hand. Assuming that's OK try hitting the starter with a 2x4 or deadblow hammer when it happens and see if the starter works again. You can also try bridging the solenoid contacts with a thick piece of wire or a metal tool (one that you don't mind getting burn marks on) and see if the starter keeps cranking. (That should have the old style Ford starter with the remote solenoid mounted on the inner fender.)
I checked the engine today. I even checked the remote solenoid and it's good, there is voltage going through. There were loose vacuum lines that I reconnected. Now the engine cranks, after 5-6 seconds, I can hear that there is some combustion happening through the exhaust for 1 second, but doesn't start and cranks again.
I think it is the zip tie fix that is the problem. I'll buy a new distributor. Should I buy a single vacuum or a dual vacuum? Is Cardone a good brand?
@bob81 Unless there is excess wear I wouldn't replace the entire distributor due to a broken clip - just replace the clip. A new distributor is likely to be made in China, or a spotty-quality rebuild, and of lower quality than the original. If you do replace it use the same type of vacuum advance as OEM. (The dual diaphragm models are probably for 1970s emissions.) Cardone, like many other brands, used to be good in the past but has gone downhill in recent years.
I don't know if mine is an original.
@bob81 Is there any identifying information on it? Even if an older replacement it would probably be of higher quality than what is generally available today unless you go for a performance ignition like MSD.
An MSD distributor would cost $569.95. That's too much for me.
@bob81 Unless there is something else wrong with your distributor just replace the broken clip.
There are 2 labels inside the distributor.
The first one says: LOT#51 AK - NV5M
The second one says: IGNITOR BY PERTRONIX | CARB F O 22
Is that an OEM part?
@bob81 Pertronix ignition is most definitely not OEM. It's an aftermarket system that replaces ignition points. If not set up correctly it's not going to work, and it may still fail. (I had a Pertronix fail on me years ago. I put points back in.) The distributor itself may or many not be OEM. I'm not a Ford guy, you would have to research that.
Scotty decided to answer
https://youtu.be/ssVg8zPzqEQ?t=520
