I've recently been looking for my first truck. I've test drove both the 2020 Tundra and Ford F150. I love the feel of both. I was wondering which truck will last me the longest with little maintenance.
I say Tundra, but not because I'm a Toyota fan. I'm not. I've been a Ford man all my life. And when it came time for them to stand behind their product, they showed me exactly what they think of their customers.
I'll tell this story again, so if you've heard it just skip my reply: I purchased a brand new 2018 F150 XLT Crew Cab with the 5.0L V8 and 10-speed automatic. It had 5 miles on it when I took delivery.
By 800 miles, it had gone through 2 quarts of oil. I took it to the dealer. They told me "Its just breaking in. Add some and the usage will go down after 1000 miles." So I did.
At 1800 miles, it had chewed through another 2 quarts and my coolant reservoir was low. Nearly empty. I went back to Ford. This is when they told me they wanted to do an oil consumption test. I had to have them mark the dipstick and return to the dealership 500 miles later for a checkup.
I returned and sure enough, it was low. The dealer called Ford to request a new engine. It was denied on the basis that the truck must travel 3k miles from the time the test starts til it is finished. Even if it already has failed the test at 500 miles, it must go the full 3k. So, away I went.
2000 miles into the test, I started getting BAD rod knock. And I mean I thought it was going to throw one through the block right there. I took it to Ford. At this point, the dipstick was dry. The tech had me leave the truck and gave me loaner.
3 days later, I get a phone call. They opened up my engine and oil was all over everything. Totally ruined. So the service manager had Ford send a crate motor, brand new, and they were going to put that in the truck. But it would take a while because Ford was low on 5.0L V8's (I wonder why).
Fast forward 3 WEEKS, I get a call. The truck is ready. New motor is in. I tell them great. I'll be there tomorrow to pick it up.
The next day, I show up and the service manager comes out. I can't have my truck. I ask why. He tells me Ford found out it only had 2000 miles on it, not the 3k that was required, and they had to pull the good motor back out and put my broken motor back in. He said, "I don't think this motor is going to go another 1,000 miles. But just go as far as you can and when it goes boom, we can put the good motor back in." Absolutely. Asinine. By this point, I have asked Ford to take the truck back. They refused saying it "did not meet the criteria for a buyback." So off I went in my $50k truck with a known bad motor.
4 days and 400 miles later, in the middle of rush hour traffic, it happened. I was on a stretch of road with a 75mph speed limit when it went out in spectacular, smokey fashion. It was 110 degrees outside and I was on the side of the roadway for an hour waiting on a tow. The dealer finally gets a wrecker to tow it to their lot. Naturally, the engine failed due to no lubrication. Ford approves replacement of the motor.
Three weeks later, the new motor is in and I'm driving along. 400 miles on the clock and for grins, I check the oil. 2 quarts low. Great. Knowing what I'll be told, I top it off and go another 500 miles before checking. This time, 2 1/2 quarts low. So, to the dealer. Around this time my transmission had also started shifting hard at highway speeds. I mention these both to the dealer. Dealer says we start the oil consumption test again and they will keep the truck overnight to test the trans.
Next day I get a call: the transmission has had "multiple internal failures" and Ford is sending a replacement. So now my $50k truck has been in the shop forever, the second motor is bad/worse than the first, and it needs a new transmission. All in the first 4 months. At this point, I contact Ford again to request a buyback. I was told, "We have already told you it is not eligible. PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT US FURTHER WITHOUT A LAWYER." Oh. Well, ok. So I send the case to my attorney's office. He issues a cease and desist order directly to Ford headquarters and demands all communication be taken over by his office. Ford is not to contact me at all.
Two weeks later, the dealer calls. Ford is refusing any further repairs. I said no problem, can I leave the truck on your lot? They say no problem. My dealer was actually very good to me throughout the ordeal, but their hands were tied by Ford.
After months of litigation, some laughable settlement offers from Ford (we will buy it back, but you pay us for the mileage you put on it {black}:laugh: ) a lawsuit is formed and a Court date set.
Ford had a team of 8 lawyers at court. What they didn't know was my attorney is head of one of the largest practices in Houston. We brought 12 lawyers. 45 minutes before the case was set to be tried, their top lawyer reached a settlement with my attorney and the case was dropped. Ford had to also pay all my legal fees, of which I had over 300 hours before all was said and done.
It took me a year to end this ordeal and a lot of my time as well. So, that is why will NEVER own another Ford, nor will any of my friends or family. I was a customer for years and had purchased millions of dollars in cars from them over time (over 60 Mustangs alone, mostly for collecting) and they didn't care one bit.
And THAT is why I say buy the Tundra. Because I had a 2014 Platinum and it was a great truck. And I'm confident Toyota would not have treated me that way if I had a problem.
But if you want the Ford, be my guest.
Oh lawdy! I wouldn't go near another Ford again after an ordeal like that.
@rosstheboss not according to Ford. I sued them under Texas state Lemon Law as even at the end they said it did not qualify for a buy back. So you, me, and everyone else know it was a lemon. But Ford says no. And that is my problem.
@mountainmanjoe Exactly my feelings. And my Dad had just purchased a truck exactly like mine 2 months prior. When I started having oil problems, he checked his and it was low. So he traded it instead of going through all I did. And there are plenty of unhappy F150 owners on YouTube who talk about the oil problems too. I had to share.
@Kerem haha well I'll keep an eye out and let you know if one comes in bud. 🙂
@mod_man. Thank you for sharing your experience. I can sympathize with you because I was a loooong time Chevy man - mainly because my dad was a Chevy man. I bought into the slick advertising and history. However, all that ended when I purchased a brand new 2010 Traverse. The first 5 years were great. No issues whatsoever. Almost 5 years to the day, the transmissions goes bad with less than 50K miles. GM was no help. So, I foolishly paid $3,800 to get the transmission fixed. Repair shop says, "Oh yeah, we see this all the time with the Traverse. It's a know problem." Sure enough, after looking at several Chevy user groups, the Chevy sponsored user group, and research on the Internet, there is a known problem and Chevy actually had a recall on the 2009 and earlier years for bad transmissions. Three years later, the power steering pump. Back to the repair shop and "Oh yeah, we see this all the time on the Traverse." While they were verifying that the power steering pump was bad, they found 3 motor mounts were shot, and several other problems that would cost $3K to fix. Instead of repairing the vehicle this time, I traded it in for a Tacoma. When I traded it in it had 78K miles in 2020 (10 years old) and all that was easy driving back a forth to work - no hard driving or towing. This wasn't just one bad experience with GM cars, I had others with problems too. But, I was stupidly loyal to GM and of course my pride wouldn't allow me to think I could be wrong. So I'll never buy another Chevy/GM car again which is another reason why I'm looking at either Toyota or Ford.
Thank you for sharing. The more information and experiences we can share, the more informed decisions others may be able to make.
If you want a truck that will last a long time with minimal issues go with the Tundra and never look back.
If you decide to go F-150 only get the V8. Avoid Ecoboost and 10-speed AT that later model years had.
I would go with the Tundra. If you go with the F150, stay away from the Ecoboost or the 10 speed transmission.
Go with the Tundra. It will last you the longest.
Tundra, Tundra, Tundra cmon man this is the Scotty Kilmer forum which means it’s really a low key Toyota forum. Toyota going to be the answer to 98% of a should I get this or a Toyota question.
The Toyota people on this forum won't talk about the actual things you use a truck for here...
Like how the regular V8 F-150 tows 14K pounds compared to the Tundra's 10,100, or how the F-150 has 1600 lbs more payload, or how the F-150 V8 gets 17 city 21 highway, wheras the Tundra gets 13 city 18 highway. Or how the cheapest new Tundra for sale in the USA according to Autotrader is $33,367, whereas the cheapest F-150 is $19,080.
You can like the Tundra but don't say F-150's are bad trucks, because they aren't in the real world. Real blue collar people don't pay out of their nose for inferior vehicles, even if they will supposedly last forever.
@rosstheboss I respectfully disagree, the gas powered Fords are not good. Sure a lot of blue collar and military use but I can tell you firsthand those F150s are in maintenance constantly. The ecoboosts are constantly pooping out and now the newer 5.0s aren’t holding up either. They are not made well in my opinion and it’s fine for you to disagree but I’m seeing these things firsthand everyday. The 10 speed transmissions are even worse. I will say the 6.7 Powerstroke seems to be a decent motor.
If you are only going to buy brand new, then go with the Tundra. If you go used, then it opens up the doors but avoid the model years 2018-present F-150s especially with the NA V8. Also, best to avoid the Ecoboost engines along with the 10-speed AT (jury still out on longevity of those transmissions).
If you intend to tow a lot especially approaching 10,000 lbs then I recommend stepping up to the Ford F-250 (those are much better than the F-150s).
I want to buy a new truck which I can trust. Seems tundra is the choice. Then I have another question, Toyota just announced the new tundra 2022 and it seems they are switching to v6 ecoboost. Not sure if I need to wait the new one and get the 2021 with V8. May it is too early to ask this question .
The new one I would not get. As Scotty has mentioned before, it’s a good idea to wait a few years and let the bugs/kinks get worked out. That being said, I would get the existing generation Tundra with the true and tried powertrain.
I would get the 2021 model becuase:
1- The 2022 model year is a new design and no one knows how it can hold up over time.
2- the NA V8 can outlast the turbo engine.
3- As @Doc mentioned, the difference in the mpg between those could be negligible and if you consider the repair cost of the twin turbo V6 engine, you definitely go with the NA V8.
Get the Tundra with the V8. Nobody buys a pickup truck for the gas mileage. They are supposed to help you work.
Go to the websites "FAQ" page it should be at the top of the question list, then "Used car buying" or something like that, and then there is a "Video compilation by Kerem"; there you can find sections of Trucks to buy and not to buy based on Scotty's videos.
If you actually use your truck, for things like towing, heavy hauling, etc, go for the F-150. If you want a big vehicle and its benefits, and want to just throw some stuff in the back, go for the Tundra. But you'll get your tires slashed showing up to the worksite in a Tundra...
The Tundra is the perfect truck for someone who wants a truck but doesn't need to do heavy work and here's why:
Tundra towing capacity: 10,400 lbs, F-150 matches that on the 3.7 V6 and up from there
Tundra MAX payload: 2040 LBS... F150 MAX payload: 3,120 LBS
Tundra: 17-20 MPG highway 13-16 MPG city, F-150 18-23 MPG highway and 11-17 City
Honestly... There are a million different packages of the F150 and quite a few on the Tundra, but I guarantee you that if you are doing heavy hauling, it won't even feel like anything is back there, ESPECIALLY when you are pushing the limits of the payload. The local pipefitters union chose all F-150's because they had the power to deliver at a much better price. Would tundras have lasted longer? Maybe... If you push a weaker vehicle to its limits all the time, even if it's better built who knows how it would last.
At the end of the day, it comes down to your budget and what you want to do with it... Assuming they are of equal wear and tear I would:
Go with the F-150 if I was getting it for a contracting position or heavy hauling, RV towing, ETC
Go with the Tundra if I wanted a reliable truck for keeping forever that I looked cool driving around with and need for the occasional weekend project.
I hope this helped you out...
Appreciate it. I'm definitely a "weekend warrior".
This thread has gone to hell.
Everyone - take a DEEP breath, step away from the keyboard, and stop pressing the refresh button.
At the end of the day, WHO CARES? It's a person with 1 post on the forum asking about trucks. The decision of this person's purchase will not effect any of our daily lives.
I'll stick up for the F-150 any day but this is getting ridiculous.
Just take it easy - I know you're all right 🙂
But let's just move on. We're all beating a dead horse here.
Who cares how much it can haul and tow while it's being towed?
The Tundra is the better truck, no question.
However, if you are just going to use it occassionally, I would consider saving the money and getting the F150 with a V8. Depends on what is important to you: longevity (Tundra) or price (F150).
😯 I never thought I'd hear you recommend an F150 😛
I'm not. But everyone already knows what I'm going to say, so I'm trying not to be too predictable. 😆
haha i remember your story... Do you still drive pickups?
Not currently. But if I ever get another it will be a Tundra.
The Tundra will outlast the F-150 by far. Those F-150s 2018 and up have a 10 speed automatic they codeveloped with General Motors and it’s a junky one. If you can find a 2017 and below F-150 that’s a non turbo V8 and 6 speed auto, it can be a decent pickup truck. Still, the Tundra will outlast the Ford.
Hear are Tundra years you should avoid: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-worst-toyota-tundra-model-year-you-should-never-buy/
Unless you want issue after issue after issue, get the Tundra. The F150's have a buffet of issues.
Thank you.
If it’s between those 2 I’d say Tundra. The 1/2 ton market is weak in the US. However the new redesigned Tundra w/ the new motor w/ turbo and more plumbing. That is unproven and no one knows how the reliability will be. If you get the traditional 5.7 w/ 8 speed auto it is a solid design for the most part. Motorreview.com will tell you everything there is to know about Toyota’s 5.7.
I want to correct a mistake the Tundra has a 6 speed auto not an 8.
Thank you for the assistance
No way will that turbocharged V6 last as long as the old V8 and it will cost a fortune to fix when it breaks down. The reason for this change is not market demand, but the increasingly unrealistic demands of governments in their ongoing, senseless war against ManBearPig. These engines will be "light years ahead" of the V8 on their way to the junkyard.
Basically you maintain it and drive it for x number of miles until something expensive goes 'BOOM'. And as you said off to the junkyard.
Can you guys provide more technical clarification about the design specifications and potential technical issues? What is the different between this design company to the F150 V6 3.5 Ecoboost engine?
For starters consider how much those turbochargers will cost to replace when they fail. (Turbochargers are a wear item.)
The technology being used is impressive, no doubt about it.
From my perspective, this translates into 'can I afford it when it breaks after the warranty expires' due to the computer management and complexity of the design.
DIY is starting to go away with these new engine designs.
Can you guys provide more technical clarification about the design specifications and potential technical issues? What is the different between this design company to the F150 V6 3.5 Ecoboost engine?
From what I've seen from Ford's entire Ecoboost line of engines, Toyota's engineering should be far more reliable. We can do a comparison between the two engines specs, boost pressures, etc. however I don't think that would give us reliable estimates for future reliability. A good estimate would require polymer mixtures used, the metallurgical compositions used for the engine components etc. How hard are the bearing surfaces, how many engine cycles were actually tested etc. I don't know how a consumer could access that information. I believe that would be proprietary information a manufacturer would not offer to the public. Strictly from a consumer's point of view, and based on past engine performance and reliability, Toyota should get the nod for reliability. Personally, I would be patient and wait 2-3 years and see how the new engine holds up.
I bought a brand new F150 with 4 miles on it. 6 months and 6k miles later, I was in court with Ford and a year after that I won my Lemon lawsuit.
I wouldn't recommend their products at all.
May I know what issues you had with the F150?
Well, my story has been passed around on here a few times. But I'll keep it short: 3 motors, 2 transmissions, 1 warped dash, and a Partridge in a pear tree. Oil consumption, coolant consumption, liquid oil blowing out the tail pipes, etc. etc. Seriously, it was the single biggest piece of junk I've ever owned, and I buy cars like most people buy shirts. And the whole way, Ford refused to help and made the process as difficult as humanly possible for me.
In my opinion 23k is an awful amount of money for a 11 year old truck with well over 100k miles.
ugh those Tundras are so ugly
If I remember correctly, the 2 valve 4.6 were used from around 1997-2002, and the 3 valve 4.6's 2003-2008. The trucks you mention have their own inherent issues. The things that stick out for each; the 3 valve 4.6 & 5.4 spark plug breaking when trying to change them. The 4.6 & 5.7 Tundra's have the dreaded cam tower oil leak. Is one better than the other, not really imho.
They're both decent trucks and like any vehicle longevity depends on the correct maintenance being done and overall care.
Tundra, not even close
Go Ford if you are actually going to use your truck for what it's for. Towing, hauling, etc.
If your son is using his truck for contracting, he'll get his Tundra's tires slashed.
But if you just want him to have a truck so he will look cool, get a Tundra.
You'll pay much more for the Tundra than the F-150.
The 2014 model year was the best F-150 in that time range.
Both trucks' longevity relies on how they are treated. Get a mechanic to check any vehicle before you buy it.
It's silly to assume a used truck will last longer than another based only on the logo on the hood. People who actually buy trucks to do work beat the hell out of them. It's better to keep an open mind, do your research, and make decisions based on the physical trucks themselves instead of brand loyalty.
As a former tundra (2014 1794) owner, I will respectfully disagree. As dependable as that thing was, and as much as I loved it, cross country driving comfort was its biggest demerit. I almost couldn’t walk after an 8 hour day behind the wheel. I eventually got one of those gel donut cushions; made me feel old but at least it was tolerable.
I suppose it’s a small price to pay for an otherwise great truck.
They are both good for light hauling. The 5.7L Tundra has more torque compared to the F-150, but it's not that much more. I would go with the Tundra for long-term dependability and durability, but they're both good choices.
I wanted the tundra. My dad used to use our dodge minivan for hauling so this is a great upgrade...
I will put my vote in for the F-150. While the Tundra is perfectly capable of driving with a light trailer like that, the F-150 shines with its aluminum body for light duty towing.
You can get them quite cheap compared to the Tundras, and you get a better aftermarket part supply and much better fuel economy when you're just driving around.
Toyota makes a reliable truck but I personally don't think it's worth the premium.
Of course I can't show you local listings... but I would look for a nice lightly used F-150 like this:
https://www.automaxxsd.com/details/used-2017-ford-f-150/71652899
That gen of F-150's was one of the best ever made. You will save a ton on the F-150 compared to the Tundra and get a more capable truck.
I say go F-150.
You seem to ask a lot of questions about buying vehicles!
That really was the best generation of the F-150, esp. with the 5.0.
@DayWalker Yeah either that or the previous with the optional manual
the transmissions were bad on those i think scotty said
That has the Ecoboost 3.5L V6 engine. The Ecoboost engines (being turbocharged GDI) can wear out over time and the Ecoboost 3.5L V6 also had a timing chain driving the water pump (located within the engine behind timing chain cover) and if it leaked worst case could take out the engine. Even if caught early it’s still going to be very expensive to replace the water pump due to its location within the engine. You are better off with the 5.0L V8 and in fact I have been recommending the 2011-2014 F-150 V8 to members looking for a truck (but don’t want a Toyota Tundra). See below at 6:08
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4SQdECBwiQ