So the A/C stopped blowing cold on my wife’s 2020 highlander that we bought new a couple years ago. No biggie, it’s was almost due for it’s 20k mile oil change so I told her to take it in to the stealership (team Toyota in schererville, IN) and have them look at it since it’s still under warranty. They performed the free oil change service (2 year free Toyota care) but contacted her regarding authorization for $961.22 to change the ac condenser that they say is leaking due to rock/road debris puncturing it and that’s why the a/c isn’t working. They send her a video of what they say is the damage (no longer have it wife deleted it), but it was just a video of a dirty condenser, not a UV light video showing a dye leak or anything like that. I was skeptical and annoyed about the prospect of spending a grand on a repair for a new car, so I told her not to authorize it. Now at this point I have no reason to believe their trying to scam me, just that I’m being too cheap to spend a grand on a repair on a new car 😂. I work on my cars and motorcycles myself, and figured this could be a job I could tackle on my off day, then just bring it in for a system evac and recharge. So I pay for 2 day shipping on rock auto and it’s supposed to arrive today. When I removed the first hose on the condenser I could hear it release pressure… obviously I’m annoyed thinking if there’s a hole in it condenser there shouldn’t be any pressure. I start messing with the old condenser trying to find the leak while I wait for the new one to arrive, and I can’t find one. I put soapy water on the condenser and blew air through it with the air compressor… no bubbles. Then I apply vacuum with a hand pump to it at -15mm hg for 15 minutes… and it holds the same negative pressure without leaking. So now I’m thinking there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this condenser and they were trying to scam her.
Should I bring the condenser somewhere to be properly pressure tested for leaks? Go to the dealership and call them out? Call Toyota corporate and make a complaint? I realize now I should have gotten a second opinion before removing the condenser 🤦🏻♂️, but what should be my next course of action?
misdiagnosis of a sealed system with no puncture would be fraud. Either there’s a hole or there isn’t right?
Wrong.
If I think there's a hole even though there isn't one, then I'm not trying to defraud you. I simply made a mistake.
If I install a shelf on your wall, and the shelf isn't level, then am I committing fraud? Have you never made a mistake at your job?
Fraud is a wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain
Exactly right. The key words in that definition are 'deception' (a lie) and 'intended'. Just like I told you initially ... malicious intent. And you have prove that.
People often throw around words like scam and fraud having no idea what they mean.
you think I should take the whole vehicle
Yes. Take it there as is, and bring all your parts.
Problem is they will change the condenser and it won't fix the problem. Then they will fix the problem and charge you more. I doubt they will refund the condenser or put the old one back in. While it's not fraud it is gross incompetence which costs you extra money. A competent mechanic will actually do the tests necessary to pinpoint the problem.
Should I just install the new condenser and hold onto the old one till this is all settled?
You might as well do that since it's apart and you have the new condenser already and the status of the original is not certain.
If your AC system has been open to atmosphere all this time you'll want to replace the drier as well since it will have become saturated with atmospheric moisture. (Those are only supposed to be exposed to air for a few minutes and should be the last thing installed before closing up the system and pulling vacuum.)
Advice for catching dealer in fraud?
Fraud implies malicious intent. Do you have proof that they knew the AC was fine, and they tried to charge you anyway? If not then it's simply a case of misdiagnosis, and you will embarrass yourself making baseless accusations.
I put soapy water on the condenser and blew air through it with the air compressor
Did you apply the 150 or so PSI that the system normally experiences?
what should be my next course of action?
My advice is to take it to a qualified AC shop.
Take the whole vehicle in to an expert. In the old days when I did HVAC work we had a sniffer that used a propane torch and a ventury pipe. If there was freon the flame woulds change color. You just walked around with the suction hose hooked to the sniffer and if the flame changed color there was the leak. Now they have solid state sniffers that squeak or buzz when trace amounts of refrigerant is detectable. You might be able to rent one from AutoZone. Under no circumstances should you open your system to the open air. That's dangerous. You can buy refrigerant top off kits with the adaptors to hook to the low side of the compressor. Top off the vehicle and use the sniffer to find the leak. All auto AC systems leak especially around the compressor shaft but it takes years normally to loose enough to stop working. I remember units icing up because of a partial charge lost. Just be careful. HVAC is dangerous. The gas can damage your lungs and it can freeze things when released like the fluid in your eyes. HVAC is just beyond what an untrained DIY should attempt.
Fraud implies malicious intent. Do you have proof that they knew the AC was fine, and they tried to charge you anyway? If not then it's simply a case of misdiagnosis, and you will embarrass yourself making baseless accusations.
Fraud is a wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. I think a puncture misdiagnosis of a sealed system with no puncture would be fraud. Either there’s a hole or there isn’t right? Should be pretty cut and dry if they did a dye leak test, and if my rudimentary tests didn’t show any leaks… where was the leak they were seeing? Seeing how the a/c condenser is the only part of the system exposed to the outside world/elements that isn’t covered under warranty that the owner is responsible for I find it ironic that this was the magical part for why the system failed.
Did you apply the 150 or so PSI that the system normally experiences?
No, I know I didn’t apply that much pressure, maybe 50-60 psi for 20-30 seconds.
My advice is to take it to a qualified AC shop.
thanks, you think I should take the whole vehicle or just the condenser to be tested? Should I just install the new condenser and hold onto the old one till this is all settled? I’m annoyed that I inadvertently opened a closed system into the atmosphere due to a “misdiagnosis”. Toyota serviced the vehicle the 13th, no functioning a/c, I opened the system on the 16th… surely 3 days should have been enough time for all the pressure to escape through a puncture in the condenser instead of the hissing I got when I opened it in a nonfunctional state? Thanks for the advice.