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momentary crank no start

  

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Topic starter

2008 GMC Acadia, replaced starter due to intermittent no crank (1 click) /no start. 
Replaced knock sensor and connector on bank 2 since wires were shorted with melted insulation.
Now it cranks for 2 seconds only while key in run but something electrical shuts it off.
Keeping the key in run, it then cranks again momentarily.
60 PSI fuel at rail, I see 1 spark on a cylinder during the 2 second crank
https://imgur.com/a/8a7884M
Sprayed starting fluid in throttle body but same crank no start.
I do not suspect crank position sensor since scanner tool shows 100+ rpm while cranking.
noid light on fuel injector flashed while cranking. 
No theft deterrent activation.
I connected clip to load side of starter relay and it cranks for as long as clip is in but still no start.
Help!


8 Answers
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Posted by: @carlosg

: 40, 50, and 20 psi on cyl 6, 4, and 2

those cylinders are all on one bank.

it looks a lot like failed head gasket.

 

 

failure on 3 cylinders is too severe for additive to fix. It's likely to just make matters worse.


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Posted by: @carlosg

I had already replaced transmission 3 years ago. If I pull the head myself it will be cheaper than buying another SUV.

If you can do the work yourself (most people can't) that's a horse of a different color.

Although head gasket seems most likely of course you may find other problems. Might want to use a borescope to check cylinder condition before doing all that work, and check the other 3 cylinders for compression as well. The GM 3.6 is notorious for timing chain failure and it has 3 timing chains. A chain could have stretched and skipped a few teeth, throwing off valve timing.

Once you're satisfied the head gasket is the problem you'll want to be sure to check the head and block for warpage when the head is removed.


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have you tried boosting it from another running vehicle?


Replaced spark plugs and tried starting with jumper wires connected to a running car but did not help. I just checked compression on 3 cylinders and see very low compression: 40, 50, and 20 psi on cyl 6, 4, and 2
I don't understand, this car used to run before replacing the starter.
If a head gasket is blown, I'd like to try an additive first but I first need it running to try that.


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Posted by: @carlosg

I just checked compression on 3 cylinders and see very low compression: 40, 50, and 20 psi on cyl 6, 4, and 2

Your engine unfortunately is shot, probably a blown head gasket as indicated by @imperator. Cost to repair is very likely to exceed the value of a 16-year-old Acadia. Even if you did repair the engine, those vehicles are notorious for transmission failure and chances are the trans would blow out soon afterwards. Realistically it's time to shop for a replacement vehicle.

https://www.carcomplaints.com/GMC/Acadia/2008/


I had already replaced transmission 3 years ago. If I pull the head myself it will be cheaper than buying another SUV.


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Topic starter

I did a cylinder leak down test with homemade tester. See 50 psi out of 60 psi.
Used balloon to see it inflate some to identify compression stroke, then put long screwdriver and little further turn of crank showed it reach top.
Loud hiss/leak is heard out of other cylinder.
Cyl #   Leaks out of
4            2
6            4
1            5
3            1
I did not test cyl 2 since I could not identify the compression stroke (balloon did not inflate any) .
I also did not check cyl 5.
I am puzzled why cylinder 3 leaks out of 1 but 1 leaks out of 5?
If it was a head gasket issue, would not 3 leaking out of 1 mean 1 would leak out of 3?
What does it all mean? Needs a head gasket, cracked head, valve job, or timing chains?


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Topic starter

I learned all that leaking from one cyl to another is likely because valves are not seating.. because of timing failure leaving valves open. I'll check with borescope. I now understand it is an interference engine and so valves could be bent.  Would it be advisable to replace chains and set timing and then check if valves seat before considering removing heads? Replacing valves myself looks easy with a compression tool but want to avoid unnecessary work.


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Posted by: @carlosg

I learned all that leaking from one cyl to another is likely because valves are not seating.. because of timing failure leaving valves open. I'll check with borescope.

See what you can with a borescope but you're getting to the point where the heads and timing chain cover really need to be removed to see what's going on inside that engine. If you're lucky the valve timing is off just enough to cause compression problems without damaging valves, bores, or pistons.

The timing chain setup on the GM 3.6 is complex. If valve timing is off it could be due to any of the 3 timing chains or all of them.

You'll want to get all your ducks in a row. This is not a job you want to do more than once.


Well I replaced timing chains and all valves in both heads even though none were bent so I'm thinking the timing was not off. A lot of work. It's all back together yet it still only cranks for a 1 to 2 seconds at a time same as before. I have compression 90 to 120 psi but the low numbers I think is because it takes a few cranks to get it to reach that high. Something is not right when cranking because it only cranks for 2 seconds at a time instead of cranking for as long as I have the key in the run position. Could something be wrong with the crankcase? I will try pumping air into a cylinder and see if it comes out of another cylinder again as before.


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Posted by: @carlosg

Could something be wrong with the crankcase? I will try pumping air into a cylinder and see if it comes out of another cylinder again as before.

I'd think if something bad was going on in the bottom end you'd heard some knocking down there when it does start. A leakdown test is probably a good idea.

Did you send the cylinder heads to a machine shop to check them for problems? Did the valve seats look OK? New valves lapped into the seats for a good seal?


No, I lapped the valves myself. Checked good seal by pouring water and not a drop seeped out. Also everything looked straight using a metal ruler and no noticeable cracks anywhere when cleaned. I'm also considering replacing the starter (again) since it only cranks for a moment (sometimes up to 3 seconds) and it has lifetime warranty.


Also the old gasket did not appear broken or anything so I may have replaced things unnecessarily but with 280K miles, I did not think it would hurt.


I replaced the starter (again) and it now cranks for as long as I hold the key in the run position.
Man, my confidence at O'Reilly re manufactured starters is low now to say the least.
However still no start.
Got code P0335 - CKP sensor no signal. I replaced CKP with AC/Delco but did not help. So I suspect a fault with the wiring.
I measured ~5V at the 5V Ref at ECM with key on, and ~5V while cranking.
The signal wire at the ECM showed average ~200mV while cranking with a voltmeter.
https://imgur.com/a/fC57CgM
My understanding is the sensor produces a digital square wave 5/0 and other videos I have seen show voltmeters reading average ~500mV while cranking.
I've ordered a new CKP connector and plan on splicing it on though that assumes the connector is bad which I have not yet determined to be the case.
Anyone can offer advice on how best to troubleshoot the wiring?


My method for backprobing wires at the ECM:
https://imgur.com/a/TQ63mCz


CKP connected, Key ON, voltmeter between Ground and wire:
5V Ref: 5.03V
Signal: 8mV
Ground: 7mV

I manually turned the crank but Signal always showed 0V
Disconnected CKP, Key ON
see 0V at signal (expected 5V since it's pull down system)
Disconnected CKP, Key OFF
600 Ohms between Signal and VRef
~0 Ohms between Signal and Ground (expected OL ?)

I believe this implies Signal and CKP Ground wires are shorted to each other.
Indeed the connector had exposed and shorted wires!
https://imgur.com/a/zurmd1n


Yikes! Nothing is going to work with wiring in that condition!


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