Hi,
thank you for all the videos. Even though I’ve had the same terrific trusted mechanic for 20 years and still go to him even though he had to relocate from three blocks away here in Cambridge Massachusetts to a 40 minute drive away, I have learned so much from your channel.
we have a 2008 CRV with 160,000 miles. We’ve maintained it well and want to give it to our 16 year old and buy a new RAV4. The only reason we’re considering new is the current market and the fact that this will probably be the last car we’ll ever buy.
We would like to consider a hybrid, even though our trusted mechanic is not crazy about them.
Any information you could share would be most appreciated.
Best wishes,
Mark Lax
Hybrids are more complex and when they get old are likely to need expensive repairs, however Toyota's are the best and you can count on quite a few years (probably 10 or more) before serious problems arise.
What I would do is calculate whether the savings in gas costs will make up for the additional cost of the hybrid drivetrain. If you do a lot of stop-and-go traffic (I used to live and work in the Cambridge area and know what that's like!) the hybrid could amount to a considerable savings. If you do mostly highway driving it may not pay off.
Thank you. What’s strange to me is that they don’t seem to be charging a whole lot more for hybrids - I haven’t ventured into a dealership yet but it the difference appears to be only ~ 2k. In the winter we drive to Wachusett @ least 3x per week, 100 miles round trip. I know the fuel savings isn’t as great in the cold.
that's because your taxes are subsidizing them
See below: you are better off with the regular gas version for longevity.
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/2021-rav4-hybrid/#post-182312
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/to-hybrid-or-not-to-hybrid-2/#post-177365
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/2022-highlander-hybrid-or-2022-rav4-hybrid/#post-142216
!!
I wouldn't buy any hybrid vehicle. Just more to go wrong.
Thank you. I tend to agree but have friends who have a Prius that’s 6 years old and been inexpensive to maintain.
It's your money. Wait until your friend needs a new battery pack.
Thanks again. I live in Cambridge MA so we’re required to at least consider hybrids, it’s in the town charter.
Do they tell you when to use the bathroom too?
what's a town charter?
To Hybrid or Not To Hybrid, that is the question.
I personally like hybrids. At the same time, I don’t think a hybrid is for everyone. It may fit your needs, it may not.
I have a 2004 Toyota Prius, that has 299,999+ miles. It’s been an amazing vehicle. The battery did need to be changed at 275,000 miles.
Hybrids in general are a more complex system. There is an Internal Combustion Engine. There is an Electric Motor. There is an eCVT which figures out the power it is is getting from the ICE and/or Electric Motor to transfer to the wheels. There is the cooling systems, systems with an s, one for the ICE, one for the Electric Motor. And of course, there is the biggest concern, the hybrid battery (traction battery).
At the same time, with all the complexity, the vehicle is somewhat simplified. There is no stand alone starter. There is no stand alone alternator. The Electric Motor acts as both starter and the alternator. On top of all that, when the ICE is on, the energy generated never* gets wasted like when a traditional ICE car is sitting in idle. And on top of all that, the electric motor / eCVT help slow down the car when it regenerates electricity, also saving wear and tear on the actual brakes.
Drivetrain technology aside, the question returns to how much will one be spending on repairs and maintenance on the life of the vehicle, as compared to the ICE.
Here is a spreadsheet that attempts to give a good idea of the break even mileage. How many miles would one need to drive the car, given the price of the vehicles, the price of gas? (We can even add an expected maintenance cost as well).
Strangely enough, this spreadsheet is for the RAV4.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-bVho8e_wwS-9oU_et-SPaqGYyqXH0ZTX7-euJiKRCk/edit?usp=sharing
One tab just takes the averages of highway and city MPG. The other tab, provides 5 different scenarios as a mental exercise.
My general recommendation just guestimating (I haven’t delved too deeply) at the spreadsheet data, generally speaking, to get the best bang for your buck, either with a hybrid or ICE RAV4.
Get the ICE RAV4:
If you plan on owning the car for less than 100,000 miles.
If you plan on driving nearly 100% on the freeway.
If you only drive your car around 5,000 miles per year. (Hybrids don’t like to sit around, they need to be exercised.)
Get the Hybrid RAV4:
If you plan on owning the car for more than 100,000 miles.
If you plan on driving 100% city, 75% city, 50% city, 25% city.
If you drive a ton per year, especially stop and go traffic.
Get either:
If you plan on owning it more than 200,000 miles. (While you will save on gas, it may equal out in terms of changing the battery. Most of the Prius stories I hear seems to be able to get at least ~225,000 out of it. Some less mileage, most folks more.)
Now for the RAV4 Hybrid specifically, the fascinating thing I like about the RAV4 Hybrid versus the CRV Hybrid and the ICE RAV4 is this. The rear wheels in the AWD system are completely electric. There is no drive shaft. It run completely on electricity. In many ways, this simplifies the setup, and gives the car more control over when to spin up the rear wheels as needed.
The CRV Hybrid has a drive shaft which connects the Electric motor from the front of the car. While I do like Honda’s implementation of the hybrid system (which is practically drives like a full time EV), the AWD system gives me pause. In my mind, it makes more sense to take away the driveshaft.
And of course with ICE RAV4, you have to deal with transfer case and differential maintenance and all that good stuff.
Ultimately, when it comes down to it, give the RAV4 Hybrid a test drive and see if you like how it drives. I personally drive one frequently, and I think Toyota did a wonderful job balancing a hybrid drivetrain with the performance one would expect from a light duty SUV.
By just looking at the Toyota msrp prices and comparing the LE trim with the LE trim but hybrid, the hybrid is $2500 ish more expensive. So right out of the gate that's $2500 more for the hybrid so you should see if you'll be driving enough and saving enough gas to make up for just this initial price difference.
Then there is the fact that hybrid cars are more complex than gasoline only cars so there is more that can go wrong and also cost more to fix. Also, when the battery would need to be replaced that is not cheap either.
But given these and what other people have said here, if you want to get a hybrid then a hybrid made by Toyota is the best option because they've been making hybrid for a long time and they know how to make it right.
