Hello Scotty, love your channel. I'm looking to buy a new 2021 Toyota Camry XLE with 2.5 L 4-cyl. 8 speed ECT-i with sequential shift mode. I remember watching one of your past videos that you mention not to buy an 8 speed camry because they have problems. How do you view the 8 speed 2021 Camry now? Do you believe I should go the safe route and lean more towards the 2021 Corolla with CVT. Thanks for your time.
That was refering to the 2018 model year. Toyota mostly solved the issues by the 2019 model year. Of course, these are short term issues mostly with "hesitation" from the adaptive transmission. Long-term it still is a risk. CVTs aren't much better, but at least we know the Toyota CVT is proven after decades of it being used in the Prius, and it being used for 8 years in the Corolla. Just get whichever one you like better.
Then again, I also wonder what everyone else has to say.
Only hybrids comes with CVT.
@yaser
I was refering to the 2021 Corolla, doesn't that come with CVT even non-hybrid?
The question is about 2021 Toyota Camry XLE, not Corolla. And yes, the all new Corollas comes with CVT.
@yaser
" Do you believe I should go the safe route and lean more towards the 2021 Corolla with CVT. Thanks for your time. "
👍
People complained about the 8 Speed AT because of the way it shifts. It is designed to get the best mpg that's why it is always hunting for gears and it is not as crisp as the 6 speed AT. Test drive it before buying to see how you feel about it.
They fixed the transmission issues in the 2018 with a software fix. Haven't heard of any current transmission issues with in the 2021 Camry
Great car.
but are you sure on the 8 speed?
Toyota has been some trouble with their 8 speed trannies being feeling odd…
I remember driving a 2019 Peugeot 208 diesel with an 8 speed Toyota and it would constantly change gears and would have a very slight vibration on takeoff.
I’d get the 6 speed AISIN.
While the 6 speed is definitely better, the 8 speed is still a good transmission. The issues that they has were all software related and it appears that Toyota has fixed it.
@billybob
I used to be a transmission mechanic.
Are you sure you want to argue with someone who actually has pulled them apart?
They’re full of metal shavings as early as 120,000. The internal filters are un-replaceable and they’re just honestly bad.
The 8 speeds back in the day, the TG-81SC being the worst offender, were considered the weak spot of Volvo’s and now people trying to lecture tranny guys on how a 20 year old design got its poor quality fixed by software. Funny.
It’s like how ford “fixed” the powershift with software. The tranny is still low quality, just now you can actually drive it.
I pulled up the entry in my data base on the 8 speed AISIN gearbox. 200,000km is hardly 120,000 miles.
“AVERAGE LONGEVITY: 120,000 MILES”
And that’s what I’ve been seeing in real life.
The newer ones are slightly better, my data base says 160,000 miles but that’s still not the good old U170 that could’ve gone for 250,000 miles easily.
What proof do you have that the updated 8 speed auto is not troublesome?
@billybob
If you have some conflicting experience on the Toyota 8 speeds through the years I’d love to know. Cause *none* of my experience with those has been positive.
the 8 speed isn’t good, the issues aren’t all software they’re quality.
I would still take the 8 speed over a Hyundai or Kia transmission.
Well here we differ.
I’ve owned Hyundai products and loved the trannies.
Mechanical wise, I’m less experienced but never had any serious issues there either.
@Dan do we have data on the longevity of the 8-speeds in the Toyota Camry in North America in 2018+? Time will tell on those Camry’s; the same goes with the other Toyota vehicles sold here in North America. I am hoping they have it dialed in for our market.
it’s a modified TG-81SC that we saw in Volvo for years…
According to the entry:
“The automatics gearbox is the most reliable in its class. Issues typically start after 60k-90k miles”
“A passionate driving style will cause the torque converter lock up clutch to wear out and cause stuttering and slipping”
“Metallic particles often get in the oil and cause a lot of issues with the solenoids.
If not fixed in time, the value body will also fail.”
“The most typical places for oil leaks are the left axle seal and the pump mound seal”
The longevity is rated to be between 160k-180k miles.
We had this gearbox for ages in Europe, on the Opel Insignia and the XC60… and I’m very not impressed with it it’s always the weak spot of any car (no matter how bad) that it gets put in.
heres a video on the gearbox and on how’s it’s built.
The 6 speed is a brand new gearbox and I’ll only know if it’s good in 3/4 years.
@Dan what about the longevity of the Aisin 8-speed AA81E and 10-speed Direct Shift-10A AWR10L65? What’s your knowledge, experience with those, and what does your database say? Those are used in RWD longitudinal applications.
Well the AA81E is new, I only have limited experience with the AA80 used in the Cadillac CTS. It was alright, they lasted about 150k miles even in cars with big engines and heavy chassis.
In my opinion the AA80 is a good tranny.
But I’m not sure; where I live there are not many cars with that tranny - but from what I know, if you keep the oil clean it shouldn’t have any issues for a while - they didn’t have clutch / friction wear or computer / software issues. They seem to be reasonably well put together.
On the topic of the AGA0E 10 speed Toyota, they’re pretty new. I’ve herd they seem to all wear out before they reach 150k miles but since they were only in high performance cars (like the Lexus LC) that typically get beaten up, I really do not know if that’s an indicator of how they’ll be in regular cads.
Personally I’d avoid the 10 speed for now, but the RWD 8 speed seems to be alright.
the data base claims 160k miles on the 8 speed and on the 10 speed it claims they last 120k miles but they mention that “it’s too early to say and common faults haven’t been identified yet”
personally I’m waiting for information on the 7DCT300 in Mercedes, Renualt diesel and ford products as I’ve been looking and considering getting a car with that tranny (Ford Puma / Focus ST / Renualt GrandTour SR or maybe even a Mercedes CLA to keep as a toy)
@Dan thank you for all the information and insight. BTW, those numbers that the database cites - is that average, max, estimate, what is it based upon? I’m sure if you drive the vehicle sensibly and put mainly highway miles on it and change the ATF fluids/filter religiously that an owner can beat those numbers.
Those are averages based on mechanics observations. Usually these are for mixed driving and how owners typically service them.
Usually if you need to do / avoid doing something the database says so.
Like the 8 speed where it’s said that this tranny can get worn out by rough acceleration and that if is sensitive to the oil condition.
If you baby your car, change the fluid religiously you can get extend the life of your tranny past the estimates.
But personally I’d just try to get a trans that’s well built from the beginning like the new SkyDrive 6 speed automatic.
Although somehow I always end up buying cars with the flawed transmissions cause I can get them for cheap.
The 6DCT250, 6DCT450, C50A, GA4F2 are all flawed but they’re cheap and I think they’re not as bad as people think they are.
120k miles on a transmission is not very reliable (I average them to last 200k miles.) , but then again, how are people driving them, as dan said, if you baby it you'll probably go alot further, but you really shouldn't support or endorse shotty mechanical functions either.
The Camry 8 speed automatic has only been out for 3 model years. Aging 2012-2017 are having transmission failures all around, I doubt the 8 speed automatic would be better (the previous gen transmissions failed around 100-120k miles) but the short term kinks are fixed. Even the Corolla CVT is much better IMO in terms of reliability. I think the ultimate answer to this debate is that its too early to tell, but the reliability isn't ideal. Still better than Honda's 10 speed automatic.
@kerem
I agree, on every single word.
the old one (U670) already a bit of a mess, but even when all of that was clear people still when told this wouldn’t believe me arguing “Toyota reliability”.
The average lifespan of the old tranny is rated at 160k miles but I think that’s too much for these somewhat trashy 6 speed transmissions.
But the failures that it had were not what you’d typically expect from an Japanese car - the issues on the U760 were very serious like internal parts wearing out, clutch drums failing, vibrations due to poor quality bearings and valve body corrosion.
The CVTs are half decent, Toyota has been experimenting with them in Europe for over 15 years. Older CVT models are worthless on the used marked and where I live 2015 CVT Corollas go for less then the 2010 automatic ones.
I personally still would never buy a CVT maybe expect the ones on the 2nd generation Mitsubishi Outlander - those were made half decently.
Why can’t we just go back to the simple 4 speed automatic days,
I’d rather have a naturally aspirated 2.0 with a 4 speed auto then to deal with a turbo charged 7/8 speed monstrosity that will fail just in a matter of 100k miles.