What makes Ford sell so many vehicles compared to the other domestic brands?
example: why does the Ford F-150 outsell the competition so well since the late 70s and mid 80s? Is it that superior engineered or is it just marketing? Or just more brand loyalist in the Ford community?
I’m writing a paper on ‘Do sales actually reflect a quality product?’ All the details y’all can give me the better
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Two reasons:
"I'm a Ford guy."
"I'm not a Ford guy."
Yeah, just like any other brand.
Lol so true.
Ford sold so much early on because they were really built Ford tough. That was also in the days when trucks were actually used for what they were intended for and people needed sturdy and reliable work horses. Now the truck has moved from ranch and construction work to being doctors and dentists and lawyers commuter vehicles. Ford does have great marketing but they sell because of the early days and someone’s grandpa telling them “ I always drove a Ford.” Now, Ford in my opinion has fallen into the same quality as GM. Would I still buy a new Ford over a new GM product? Absolutely.
This just so much BS advertising. Ford has lied for so many years saying the F150 is the best selling truck in America that people actually believe it. It's called saturation marketing. You might recognize this tactic in a lot of politicians too. By the way, Ford pays the FCC about $4-5 million a year in fines for false advertising, but i't cheaper that telling the truth. Never believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Not surprising. This is the company that found it was cheaper to payout lawsuits for Ford Pinto fuel tank fires, rather than fix the problem itself.
Can you send me links to get this kind of information?
Commercial Fleet sales. The F-Series keeps them alive, the Mustang makes them profit. Everything else is just filler.
Commercial contracts play a huge role in keeping GM and Ford afloat right now.
I’m assuming that because the have high fleet sales is because they are solid trucks but not as pricey as a tundra
lol no. Fleet vehicles are aren't kept very long before they're sold off.
@mountainmanjoe is right. Also, a lot of fleets have switched away from them to the Ram heavy duty trucks which is what helped propel Ram to the best selling spot a year ago and is keeping their sales up. Ford quality is terrible. I once spoke with a Ford engineer and told him "Hey, how are you guys having these problems? Isn't your slogan 'Quality is Job One?'". To which he replied, "Yeah that's just marketing BS."
Don't forget Police sales for the explorer too.
Marketing, brand loyalty, perception all definitely play a role. Also, when it comes to trucks GM actually sells a little more than Ford when you combine the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra sales together. Strictly by brands, however, Ford F-150 is #1 in truck sales. Ram in the last several years has managed to overtake Chevrolet in sales, and part of that I believe is their marketing and features they offer (they have the best interior). The Tundra is a distant 4th place despite being the most reliable.
As for sales and quality, there is no correlation. The most sales does not mean the product is necessarily quality.
The term "reasonable quality" is highly debatable. I do not consider a $40K plus vehicle that literally self destructs (spark plugs for example) "reasonable quality."
that would be a lower end model. They go up to $70k
Definetly not because of quality or customer satistaction
MotorBiscuit:
"On the ropes after paying out millions to victims of the Pinto debacle, Ford faced another disastrous recall in 1980 after the NHTSA announced after a three-year investigation it found that Ford automatic transmissions built between 1966 and 1980 contained a defect where they could slip from park into reverse, causing them to roll unexpectedly.
After reports by Mother Jones and the Detroit Free Press, it came out that the company had known about the defect since at least 1972, and rejected a design improvement that would have cost $0.03 per car to fix the issue. Instead, the company chose to quietly pay $20 million to victims and their families.
After finding that the defect was the cause of 777 accidents, including 259 injuries and 23 deaths, the NHTSA was on the verge of issuing a 23-million-car recall — a move that would have likely bankrupted Ford. In 1981, company executives pleaded poverty to the Reagan administration, and a compromise was struck: The company would mail out 23 million stickers to Ford owners to put on their dashboards, reminding them to “make sure the gear selector lever is fully engaged in Park,” and to “fully engage the parking brake” before turning the car off.
It was enough for Ford to successfully dodge what would have been the largest recall in history, but it came at a terrible cost. By 1984, it was reported that the official death toll from the dangerous transmissions hadrisen to 77."
"In 1990, when Ford released its all-new Explorer, SUVs accounted for 7% of the U.S. auto market. By 1999, they accounted for nearly 20%, and were continuing to grow in popularity. The Ford-Firestone rollover scandal of 2000 didn’t stop the popularity of the SUV, but it set off a nationwide panic and drove home just how prone to rollovers the high-riding trucks really were.
The Explorer was introduced to replace the dangerously rollover-prone Bronco II in 1990, and it went on to become one of the best-selling vehicles of the decade. For tires, Ford partnered with Firestone, which had been its preferred tire supplier for nearly 100 years. But when the NHTSA asked both Ford and Firestone to investigate a high rate of blowouts that led to rollovers, Ford blamed Firestone, and Firestone blamed Ford.
Faced with the responsibility of up to100 deaths worldwide, the tire company initiallyrecalled 6.5 million tires, blaming heat, low tire pressure, and the Explorer’s weight and handling characteristics for the accidents. Ford followed suit a few months later, recalling an additional13 million tires, with Ford CEO Jaques Nasser declaring, “We simply do not have enough confidence in the future performance of these tires keeping our customers safe.”
After executives from both companies dragged each other through the mud during televised congressional hearings, Firestone and Ford parted ways in 2002. Whether the tires were flawed or Ford’s engineering was bad, it didn’t matter. After millions of dollars were paid out by both companies in lawsuits, neither company has taken full responsibility."
Nowadays, most people are aware that the late great Ford Pinto was widely considered to be a rolling death trap during its reign of terror from 1970 through 1980.
This is mainly due to allegations that if it were rear-ended, the doors would jam shut and the bomb-like rear gas tank would explode upon impact.
Critics argue that before the Pinto was released to the public in 1970, Ford knew it was a potentially murderous and tacky–looking compact. Only, instead of recalling the cars for safety retrofits, Ford ran a cost-benefit analysis on the matter and found it would be cheaper to pay off the possible lawsuits of crash victims in out–of–court settlements.
“The Pinto Memo,” which contains these dirty numbers, was allegedly circulated among Ford’s senior management in 1968, two years before the Pinto hit the streets and caused a number of injuries and deaths.
Unfortunately for Ford, the memo was leaked to Mother Jones, an independent nonprofit magazine based in San Francisco known for investigative reporting.
An official copy of the memo is nearly impossible to find, presumably because Ford would rather not verify that they did in fact conduct a study weighing a dollar-valued human life against the costs of recalling a car.
Regardless, there does appear to be a definite consistency to the numbers the company allegedly crunched in the various Web sites, books and movies that make reference to the document.
The Infamous "Pinto Memo"
Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires
Expected Costs of producing the Pinto with fuel tank modifications:
Expected unit sales: 11 million vehicles (includes utility vehicles built on same chassis)
Modification costs per unit: $11.00
Total Cost: $121 million (11,000,000 vehicles x $11.00 per unit)
Expected Costs of producing the Pinto without fuel tank modifications:
Expected accident results (assuming 2100 accidents)
180 burn deaths
180 serious burn injuries
2100 burned out vehicles
Unit costs of accident results (assuming out of court settlements)
$200,000 per burn death
$67,000 per serious injury
$700 per burned out vehicle
Total Costs: $49.53 million (180 deaths x $200k) + (180 injuries x $67k) + (2100 vehicles x $700 per vehicle)
( http://www.calbaptist.edu/dskubik/pinto.htm)
In sum, the cost of recalling the Pinto would have been $121 million, whereas paying off the victims would only have cost Ford $50 million. The Pinto went into production in 1970 without the safety modifications. According to http://www.fordpinto.com, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration began to investigate the Pinto shortly after its release.
According to fordpinto.com, after four years of research into the causes of vehicular fires, the NHTSA discovered that “during that time, nearly 9,000 people burned to death in flaming wrecks. Tens of thousands more were badly burned and scarred for life. And the four-year delay meant that over 10 million new unsafe vehicles went on the road, vehicles that will be crashing, leaking fuel and incinerating people well into the 1980s.”
Public outcry and various legal battles forced Ford to institute a recall for dealer–installed “safety kits.” The kits consisted of plastic safety wrappings intended to dull the pointy objects that might otherwise tear through the Pinto’s gas tank in the event of an accident.
The sticky technical side of the lil’ death trap’s problems broke down to this: Critics argued that because the Pinto did not have a true rear bumper or adequate reinforcement between the rear panel and the fuel tank, it was an exploding accordion waiting to compress.
When the rear of the car collapsed, the tank would be rocketed into the differential, which came equipped with various extended bolts perfect for puncturing the gassy bladder.
Adding to the fun, the Pinto’s doors also lacked stable reinforcement, meaning that they could crumple and jam shut, drawing the fiery coffin routine to a close.
These are just the arguments of the critics, mind you. The general public came up with the unofficial Pinto slogan, “the barbecue that seats four.”
They would rather have people die and pay for the settlements than to fix it. What a scandal.
Also regarding “Ford Quality”, Ford's warranty costs for the first nine months of 2020 were more than $2 billion higher than those of GM. Imagine that!
@daywalker
Ford recalls in the 1 year period from late 2016 and late 2017 have costed them over $1.3 billion
@DayWalker can I have a link to that?
"For the first nine months of 2020, Ford’s warranty costs totaled $3.87 billion, while GM’s were $1.68 billion, according to regulatory filings."
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-ford-motor-warranty-focus/fords-new-ceo-tackles-warranty-costs-in-bid-to-boost-profit-idUKKBN2841B8
now lets talk about overpriced Japanese cars
Sounds like Toyota Tacoma
for example, 2003 Tacoma 150k miles Location: California Price: $16,000
There were years that GM trucks actually outsold Ford trucks, the problem is that the sales are split between Chevrolet and GMC, so after the division Ford ends up statistically coming in ahead.
all marketing
Okay, I will say this I see a lot of Ford ads everywhere compared to any other. However look at Toyota, the Tundra has that Toyota reliability but doesn’t sell near as many.
Because Toyota is an import. They've always faced that struggle. Fords are marketed as the "Quintessential American Truck"
As was Chevy.
You should try and find some stats on mileage of vehicles when their are eventually junked. My guess is the F150 would have a higher # than the GM, Dodge/Ram trucks. Or check how many years a certain model lasts before getting recycled. I don't know if that info is easily available but I always wanted to study it.
See the first part of your comment is subjective as to how people treat a vehicle. I would like to see it though but I highly doubt such records exist because it be near impossible to collect all that information.
actually, someone has already collected the data for you. If you go to our FAQ, under car buying, there is a link 'cars people keep the longest'.
ALL the domestic full-size trucks rank below average. Tacoma and Tundra occupy the top two spots.
@Kerem ya know reading this is interesting to me with the American cars considering Scotty says the Chevy is garbage compared to Ford but this list shows people hold on to them longer than Fords however the difference in percent is like 1% it’s interesting. I’m not surprised by the Japanese market being top dog however lol
It’s not one factor, but many. They sell what people want and need. They have reasonable quality for the price. They have a HUGE dealer network. And they are as American as all get out.
They also have done a better job than their primary competitor of maintaining their integrity. When GM was taking bailout money and cutting corners on quality, Ford didn’t (or less so).
I don’t own a Ford (or Ford stock), I’m not a ford guy. But I can respect what they do.
This is not "reasonable quality"
Can you send me the link to this graph?
International Journal of Managing Value and Supply Chains (IJMVSC) Vol.4, No. 4, December 2013 - TREND ANALYSIS OF CAR RECALLS: EVIDENCE FROM THE US MARKET by Kamrul Ahsan
"We need to help the economy and buy American"
"I am a Ford guy"
+marketing
definetly not because of the quality
90% of the profit comes from the F-series, the only car they sell is the Mustang. They really are focusing on a specific group that earns them profit. One of them being commerical buyers (how they buy F-series and Silveradas) etc.
If Japan would sell a car for a reasonable price, US manufacturers would have serious trouble.
Speaking of Japanese vehicles, they are doing the same thing as Ford did. The brands like Honda and Toyota made a name for themselves by being the 'ultra reliable' vehicle, whereas nowadays you see scotty doing videos with 4Runners ticking from the factory. Look at the recent signs - 2018 Camry's have had transmission problems. The whole Honda oil dilution problem. Look at the fuel pump recall.
Cheap manufacturing affects all brands, not just Ford.
Ford's quality has suffered. But the F-150 remains a reasonably good truck that I could buy down the street new for $27,300.
When Toyota drops the price of their Tundra by $10,000, maybe people will consider it.
The F-150 is an icon of American society, and people aren't going to pay over 10K more so that they can own a Japanese pickup truck, no matter how much more reliable it supposedly is.
As someone who owned a lot of Ford’s (currently a last gen Ford Focus and a Volvo form the Ford era) and plans on buying the new Ford Puma (or the Renault Captur). the reason I keep buying Ford’s is cause they’re built reasonably well (for what you’d find on the European market)
if you’re comparing a Fiat Tipo to the new Ford Focus, or a Citroën Cactus to a Ford Fiesta the answer is obvious.
they're very cheap to buy and the last about the same as other junk told here while offering often better reliability and a better driving experience.
How long do you keep them usually?
I keep them around until about +-120,000 miles.
A lot of other cars like the Škoda Octavia, the Peugeot 308 or the Renault Meganè (excl. diesel EDC) by that time turn into oil burning, constantly braking absolute money pits while Ford’s keep going and going on their original engines and transmissions.
Isn't Skoda basically a Volkswagen and Peugeot is part of PSA, now Stellantis?
Yes. You’re correct 🙂
It’s a shame PSA merged. They have been making terrible cars for the last decade and just as PSA started making great reliable cars again (The new 208 diesel, the new 3008 diesel…), they went and merged with Fiat…
For such mileage almost every car can be decent. Do you drive manuals? Automatics are more weak at that mileage, as I am familiar.
Nope, not every european car can last 100,000 miles, here with public transport cars are more of a thing you get to drive a couple thousand kilometers a year.
The automatics are decent.
I have worked on transmissions as a hobby and the 6DCT250 is great to work on.
Very simple, electronically actuated shifting and a clutch engagement is done by electric motors.
Early 2011-2013 ones had mechanical and electrical failures but from 2014 the quality of the unit became better then the quality than you’d find in a Toyota Avensis or Auris.
The other car I have is a Volvo with the Gatrag 6DCT450, this gearbox unlike the 250 variant, is amazing. The 450 is very similar to the 470 that’s used in the EVO X rally car.
Gatrag DCTs are still in production on chic European cars like the new version called 7DCT300 offering the same high quality of the 6DCT450 and the low price, easy repairs and electronics of the 6DCT250.
I feel famous