Hi! New to the forum, thanks for having me.
I live in Colorado Springs and am looking to get a new mid-sized SUV soon (well, new to me). I'm trying to figure out the best next vehicle and I'd like to ask y'all's opinion before pulling the trigger on something. Here's a little about my family and how we'd like to use the vehicle/ what we'd experience.
1. My wife and I are quite the adventure enthusiasts and we love to take road trips to remote destinations. So I'm hoping to get decent gas milage, good ground clearance, and good off-road capability. We don't mind a bumpy ride.
2. I've been working on cars for years, so I will primarily do my own maintenance. I'm hoping replacement parts won't be too hard to find, even if they're not OEM.
3. I'd like something that could haul a small (maybe 8'x6') enclosed trailer, maybe jet skis/ snow mobiles, or something similar if needed.
4. Since we live in colorado, we have some pretty harsh winters. So ability to handle in the snow would we wonderful.
Obviously, I want something that will last me a while with general maintenance and preventative maintenance, so I've narrowed it down to the Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, and Subaru Forester (Im also open to the Subaru Outback but just haven't looked into it as much as the others). Im leaning towards the Toyota RAV4, especially because of the conditions we drive in frequently.
I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts!
Thanks again.
L Sugar
Thank you everyone for the responses. They're super helpful.
I realize that I probably should have clarified a bit more of what I meant by off-roading and towing. I meant light off-roading. And by towing, I am thinking like a small u-haul around town, not up and down super steep mountains. This car would be mainly used on the highway, and secondarily be used on National Forest Roads to get me to places that my Honda Accord may not be able to go. I don't plan on taking it on these forest roads every weekend, but every now and then, and maybe in the snow. I don't think I will need all the power in a 4Runner or Tacoma for what i want to do. It may be overkill for now. Also I can't afford a 4Runner or Tacoma at the moment lol
Thanks again everyone
Look, the issue is that all of these SUVs are just lifted sedans / station wagons.
And they really should not be abused, especially the Forester and CR-V - even the RAV4 just can't be used off-road, the transmision on that thing hates it.
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/2021-toyota-rav4-limited-with-8at-transmission-shift-problems
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/is-there-a-transmission-problem-with-2019-toyota-camry-models
Again it's a transmission that's awesome on a Peugeot 208 mini city car, not a SUV, especially not towing/off-road.
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Here's what happens to the best CVT if you rock forwards and back.
https://carkiller.com/scottykilmer/qa/are-toyota-cvt-transmissions-different-than-others/#post-204823
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None of these are built to go off-road, only good enough to go on rough terrain.
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If you can choose to avoid any terrain you wouldn't go over in a Camry/Accord - just get the RAV4 hybrid (preferably a PHEV to use EV mode off road) it's fine
Why not get a 4x4 Tacoma with a shell on the back?
Also, seriously consider a manual, six speed transmission as opposed to the newer problem prone automatics. They are pretty much perfected by now and even better, no one will try to steal your vehicle because they don't know how to drive a stick.
Hi,
decent gas milage, good ground clearance, and good off-road capability
These things are somewhat conflicting, so it's probably going to be a compromise between the two.
I'm hoping replacement parts won't be too hard to find, even if they're not OEM
That shouldn't be a problem with almost any regular petrol car from any major manufacturer.
The big issue is that high MPG SUVs are often Hybrids and the hybrid system is difficult to diagnose and repair.
something that could haul a small enclosed trailer (...) ability to handle in the snow would we wonderful
Ideally this would require a good AWD system to tow and handle weather.
Towing rules out conventional CVT transmissions as that would strain it too much.
Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, and Subaru Forester
Neither has "good off-road capability", all of these are crossovers tuned for efficiency and neither of their transmissions (8 speed / CVT / eCVT) are not recommended for off-roading, especially Honda's and Subaru's CVTs
(it's really easy to blow them up, although Toyota/Honda/Subaru CVTs are much better than the competition, this design just doesn't work for rough terrain, some car manufacturers have CVTs that blow even after a single trip off road youtu.be/lDnRPwV_2qQ (there are auto-translated subtitles in English))
The only non CVT is Toyotas 8 speed is a transmission built for luxury sporty cars and fuel efficient European cars (mostly used by Volvo and Peugeot-Citroen to improve drivability of tiny engines or improve economy, not for off-road), it's not a transmission I'd recommend for off-roading either - they're kind of fragile when you use them not in the manner they were designed for.
If off-road capability is your main concern, of if you're planing to go over terrain you wouldn't go over in a Toyota Corolla - get a Tacoma with the V6 and AWD system - that powertrain is built to handle those kinds of loads.
Other than that, All of those are good choices - but the RAV4 is better than the rest in every metric.
The hybrid version gets excellent MPG, has a better gearbox than the regular 8 speed auto, and has a long warranty on the battery and hybrid system - but out of warranty repairs are probably going to be VERY expensive.
Also, Entry-level trims are only rated at 1,500 lbs, and the Hybrid only ay 1,750 lbs - To really tow anything ideally you'd want a "Trail ready trim" as those are rated at 3,500 lbs.
Although it is worth mentioning that a lot of people tow much more with the Hybrid as outside of the US it's rated at over 3,000 lbs - here's a video testing it's capabilities:
Both the RAV4 2.5L 8 speed and the RAV4 Hybrid are great cars, it's a battle between these two.
The 2.5L engine seems to prove it self as decent both in it's Otto (conventional petrol) and Atkinson (hybrid) versions (with only a few known flaws), and the transmission seems to be alright for most use cases (although there are people who did have issues with the 8 speed, it's not terrible at all if you periodically clean the rad and check the trans temp).
new mid-sized SUV soon (well, new to me).
Since used car prices are insane, it'd not buy a used car right now.
As far as brand new cars, if you can find a dealership that doesn't do crazy "market adjustments" it can be a good choice.
For true off-roading, I would not get the Tacoma; the 4Runner is a better choice (with TRD Off-road Package). I’ve been on lots of trails and most of them are narrow and require shorter wheelbase: current Gen 4Runners do better on those terrains than current Gen Tacomas.
Interesting.
From what I understand OP is talking about very light off-roading...
The 4Runner is still a very big car, I can't think of any US market reliable off-roaders that are actually narrow
Pretty much all modern "off-road capable" cars are not really ready for real off-roading, it's at best a marketing feature or only incorporated as an afterthought.
Your comment: “Pretty much all modern "off-road capable" cars are not really ready for real off-roading, it's at best a marketing feature or only incorporated as an afterthought.”
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I beg to differ. As someone who has been on rough offroad trails throughout the year on my way to a trailhead (for hiking) I can tell you my 2009 Hummer H3 with off-road package - bone stock - has been very capable on the terrain. I’ve had to engage my center, front, and rear lockers on numerous occasions and it’s performed flawlessly. Tires make a big difference, too.
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As for off-road machines from the factory one can take up some of the rough trails I have been on, bone-stock, I would say Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, Ford Bronco (Sasquatch or whatever their off-road package is called), Toyota 4Runner (with TRD Off-road or TRd Pro) can all do it. Of course, some trails in Moab, Utah or even the Rubicon Trail would require some mods, but these vehicles I mentioned can tackle most of those trails without issues. I think I would change the tires to BFGoodrich KO2s if they don’t come with it already. And 4Runner would be better for reliability in the long run of these.
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I should have clarified. On the tight trails I have been on, you want no bigger than midsize (so like my 2009 Hummer H3 or current Gen Toyota 4Runner which is similar size as my Hummer). Midsize trucks with longer wheelbase don’t do well, and full-size trucks forget it (like the Ford Raptor which is really a high speed Baja Runner).
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Now, as for crossovers and unibody vehicles with AWD - none of them can do true offroading despite all the marketing behind it.
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But I am getting off-tangent. I did see OP’s clarification for light off-roader.
I do not think the H3 is modern, that's a 13 year old truck designed on an early 80s platform.
As the 4Runner it's also not a modern car, and the "Prado" based cars are set to discontinue in the next 2 years - it too will be replaced by a car based on the DynamicForce architecture and will have a 2.4T engine.
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These are cars that are going extinct.
I really doubt if there will be a new solid off-roadable SUV from Toyota / Honda in the near future for the US market.
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Outside of the US they have doubled down on IMV platform (Ladder Frame), and done things like fitting a bit of self driving tech to the Hilux and pricing it under what a RAV4 Hybrid costs - but it's unclear if they'll ever bring that over to the US and wether they'll keep making them for Euro markets (the amount of emissions tech they added on to the engines is getting ridiculous)
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As far as the Rubicon and Bronco, I agree.
They still just are not great as personal transportation and aren't something I would even consider or recommend to people who are looking first and foremost for a family car.
Good points there, Dan. I know in the US there is a market for true offroad vehicles. We’ll see what happens with next Gen 4Runner or if the FJCruiser makes a comeback. I was disappointed they stopped selling the Land Cruiser here, although that’s too big for most trails I go on.
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Honda, they don’t make a true offroader or anything that comes close to it. I can’t remember here in the States their last product that was an off-roader on par with the vehicles I mentioned earlier.
I think OP wants to explore the wilderness and forestry roads, not "do trails".
If you are buying used, be sure to get one with the towing package - heavier duty cooling system, trans cooler, etc. is important especially as you're going to be towing in/over mountains.
Look at the tow capacity and load capacity for each of the cars you are looking into, and see if it meets your requirements.
If it is light off roading, and long freeway trips, the ones you listed are the best choices: CRV, RAV4, Forester. The all wheel drive versions. Extra points for the RAV4 hybrid and the CRV hybrid for MPG. All of the ones you listed are unibody, so they are really more like a raised up car, rather than a bonafide SUV. Some label these as crossover SUV’s.
But if you want more medium to heavy off roading, and you want to tow heavy, a 4Runner, Land Cruiser, or Sequoia (or Tacoma or Tundra) may be the better bets. Again, look at the load and tow capacity for each. These are built on a truck platform, so a little more rugged, and are real SUV’s.
So I'm hoping to get decent gas milage
not compatible
good ground clearance, and good off-road capability... something that could haul a small (maybe 8'x6') enclosed trailer, maybe jet skis/ snow mobiles, or something similar if needed. ... pretty harsh winters.
You're looking for a 4Runner, Tacoma, or full size pickup
I've narrowed it down to the Toyota RAV4, Honda CR-V, and Subaru Forester
No
