Which family car (compact/mid-size) to buy in Europe for 18 000 eur?
Hi everyone,
I asked advice from the forum around three years ago on buying my last car, which ended up being Toyota Auris 1.2T manual Hatchback 2016.
Which car to buy: Toyota Auris/Corolla E170/E180 | VW Golf Mk7 | Skoda Octavia Mk3
This car didn't turn out to be the one for us for 10-15 years as I had planned and hoped. Our family is growing by one person, so we would like to get three upgrades to our current car:
- Automatic transmission
- Bigger boot
- More interior space
Automatic transmission is basically to make it easier for my spouse to drive the car too, as she is not so used to handle manual ones. Bigger boot would be to better fit of combination trolley and other accessories, and more interior space for front seat passenger when there is docked safety seat facing backwards on the back seat.
I am aware, that combination trolley/safety seat -era lasts only few years, and we -could- manage also with our current Auris hatchback - or a CVT version of it - but would like still to consider some bigger options for convenience, trying not to risk too much on reliability -wise. I guess, if I wouldn't have to think of reliability issues at all, would be most interested to get Skoda Octavia or VW Passat for their good interior and boot space and availability.
Objective requirements:
- Budget max 18 000 eur (Auris 2016 in exchange + 4 000 eur)
- Max 10 years old model (2015)
- Automatic transmission
- Estate or spacious hatchback
- Gasoline, -maybe- can consider hybrid
- Size C/D-segment / Compact/Mid-size
- Driving < 10 000 km/year
- Planning (or hoping) to keep the car for 10-15 years, until it's 20 years old
Subjective requirements:
- Affordable to maintain and drive
- Reliable
- Safe
- Not extremely noisy
These are some of the most popular compact/mid-size family cars available here:
VW Passat B8 / Typ 3G
- Year models 2015-2021
- Mileage 100-220tkm
- Gasoline mostly 1.4 TSI, some 1.5 TSI
- Plug-in hybrid 1.4 TSI(?)
- Mostly 6/7-speed DSG (7-speed the notorious DQ200 dry clutch?)
- Lots of selection on hybrids (which DSG do they have?)
Skoda Octavia Typ 5E / NX
- Year models 2015-2022
- Mileage 100-220tkm
- Mostly 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.5 TSI engine, some 1.8, 2.0 TSI
- Mostly (if not entirely?) the notorious DQ200 7-speed DSG
- Lots of selection
Toyota Auris E170 Hatchback/Touring Sports
- Year models 2015-2019
- Mileage 60-220tkm
- Engine gasoline 1.2T or 1.6 Valvematic, hybrid 1.8
- Transmission CVT with average reputation (see this post)
- Do hybrids also have the same CVT?
- No improvement on interior space, boot only if estate
- Lots of selection on hybrids, not so much on gasoline
Skoda Superb B8 / Typ 3V
- Year models 2015-2019
- Mileage 130-220tkm
- Mostly 1,4 TSI engine, some 1,8/2,0 TSI ones
- Mostly 7-speed DSG (the notorious DQ200 dry clutch?)
- Probably most spacious interior
- Probably biggest boot
- Not so much selection
Toyota Corolla E210 Touring Sports
- Year models 2019-2022
- Mileage 100-220tkm
- Hybrid 1.8/2.0
- Transmission CTV/eCVT
- Noisy based on reviews
- Is there any improvement on interior space?
- Not so much selection
Volvo V40, V60
- Year models 2015-2018
- Engines 1.5 T2/T5/T3, 2.0 T5
- Transmission 6-speed Powershift/Aisin -models?
- Not so much selection
Toyota Avensis T270
- Year models 2015-2018
- Mileage 120-220tkm
- Engine mostly 1.8 Valvematic, some 2.0 Valvematic
- Transmission Aisin K1XX CVT, not good reputation one (see this post)
- Not so much of selection
Some other models still to consider/research:
- Kia Ceed JD / CD
- Honda Civic 10th / 11st gen
- Volkswagen Golf Mk7 / Mk8
* Does it come only with 7-speed DSG (DQ200)?
* Lots of selection
- Ford Mondeo 4th gen
* Comes mostly with 1.5 Ecoboost engine
What’s the latest regarding diesel engine regulations in the EU?
@g-t may wish to chime in on this one.
Run away from the VAG turbo petrols & DSG transmissions!
For your space needs, how about something like a RAV4/CR-V or equivalent?
@itwt in general Euro 7 emission standards come into force next year. That is for new passenger diesel cars. It will include tyre and brakes emissions limit.
Some cities have been already denying access to old diesel cars for years.
I'm not considering diesel as an option, as in my country (Finland) there are taxation issues with them.
Diesel
I am generally not considering a car with diesel engine. Here where I live there is annual tax collected from passenger cars powered by diesel engine. Diesel itself is not taxed as heavily, it's in fact much cheaper than gasoline, but in general diesel car is more expensive unless one is driving a lot, depending on a model it can be something like 10,000 - 90,000km a year.
Well yes, Volkswagen Golf Mk7/Typ 5G and Skoda Octavia Mk3/Typ 5E were options for me already three years ago, and got then through their TSI engines and DSG transmissions. Guess I was hoping one could find some decent combination other than 1.4/1.8 TSI and DQ200.
As far as DSG, yes most issues are with the DQ200 7 speed dry clutch, Where I live they even had a class action due to some owners having a lot of issues with clutch packs and mechatronics failing. If you do a lot of city driving, these failures are quite common.
Might be different where you live, I live with some of the most dense in the world so DCTs need to slip their clutch much more and that causes more wear.
Their reliability is similar to how Audi's MultiTronic CVT was - great for half owners and terrible to the others. It depends mostly on the driver and if there aren't manufacturing defects.
...they all usually last to above 200k km with proper maintenance, unlike some VW engines particularly the 1.4L TSI and 1.8 TSI/TFSI those two both are real troublemakers.
As far as the 1.2L, a family member of mine has a 1.2L on a Škoda Rapid and it burns litters of oil in between changes. They don't drive much, and yet at ±125,000km they're adding oil on a weekly basis. (oil was replaced at the dealer by the recommended interval of 15,000km [might be different in your country], I guess that if you replace it every 7,500km it'd be better)
But overall, very commutable cars - just questionable transmissions and some oil consumption issues.
Plus modern 1.2L TSI engines have a timing belt so that's additional costs.
In Europe they probably don't cost too much to maintain, so they can be an option.
Dual mass flywheel
I have understood VW would have some durability issues with their dual mass flywheels, and that replacing one can be 1000+ euros.
VW Passat B8 / Typ 3G then comes mostly as PHEV, so it has a bigger battery than non-plugin hybrids, meaning it will cost more to replace it if it gets exhausted through aging.
I haven't really considered SUV's like RAV4/CR-V, but I guess I might consider. I have just understood that their consumption is kind of high - although we are not driving so much - and they would be kind of unnecessary big in size. But might consider them if good options are shrinking.
It's too bad that Honda Accord has retreated from Europe since 2015, and that Mazda 6 is pretty scarcely available, but the latter could be one more option to consider.
Toyota RAV4 XA40 seems to be kind of scarcely available for my budget and age requirement (>2015). They are mostly equipped with 1.6 diesel or 2.5 hybrid engines, only one 2.0 gasoline engine available. They also have a mileage of 200-250k, so almost double than non-SUV options on their best.
Honda CR-V 4th/5th Gen is also scarcely available and selection is entirely with 1.6 diesel engine. Their mileage is also higher, being 170-230k.
So for these SUV's one should go for hybrid/diesel and accept higher mileage.
Who am I trying to fool here? I might try to consider options widely, but in the end, don't dare to buy any other brand than Toyota - or maybe Honda or Mazda - for their reputation on reliability. For hybrid, I just don't see myself buying one for longevity/reliability reasons either, and partly for low yearly mileage (although some day moving to hybrid/electric car is inevitable). But as of now, I can cut the bulls***, stop wasting everyone's time, and narrow the options to those I might realistically consider buying.
Options
Toyota Auris E170 Hatchback/Touring Sports
- Year models 2015-2019
- Mileage 60-220tkm
- Engine 1.2T or 1.6 Valvematic
- Transmission CVT with average reputation
- No improvement on interior space, boot only if estate
- Not so much selection
Toyota Avensis T270
- Year models 2015-2018
- Mileage 120-220tkm
- Engine mostly 1.8 Valvematic, some 2.0 Valvematic
- Only manual for Aisin K1XX CVT
- Not so much of selection
Honda Civic 10th gen
- Year models 2015-2020
- Mileage 70-220tkm
- Engine 1.0 P10A2 I3 turbo or 1.8 R18Z1 I4
- Transmission CVT
- Is there any improvement on interior space? Boot only if estate
- Not so much of selection
Mazda 6 3rd gen
- Year models 2016
- Mileage 120-220tkm
- Engine 2.0 L Skyactiv-G PE-VPS I4
- Transmission 6-speed Skyactiv-Drive automatic
- Very little selection
Mazda 3 3rd/4th gen
- Year models 2015-2018
- Mileage 60-220tkm
- Engine 2.0 L Skyactiv-G PE-VPS I4
- Transmission 6-speed Skyactiv-Drive automatic
- Comes only as hatchback
- Not so much of selection
Couple concrete questions
How do these automatic transmissions compare reliability -wise to Auris E170 CVT?
- Mazda 6-speed Skyactiv-Drive
- Civic 10th gen CVT
How do these engines compare reliability -wise to, let's say Auris E170 1.2T? Naturally aspirating engines might be simpler and possibly more reliable in the long run?
- Mazda's 2.0 L Skyactiv-G PE-VPS I4
- Honda 1.0 P10A2 I3 turbo
- Honda 1.8 R18Z1 I4
Does Auris E170 hybrid have the same CVT than gasoline one?
Well, maybe I give up on this project as of now, and return into it at some point when/if there is a clearer need for change or improvement on car matters. This topic was heading towards a personal diary anyway lol.
Topic can be marked as solved. I don't think there is an option for me to do it, so it's an admin task?
@timebelt-travis The checkmark to the left of your post is used to mark the topic as "solved".