You realize there's a crap ton of "Hey Scotty, my Toyota is doing XYZ....what's wrong???" threads, too, right? People come here with car problem questions, so I'm not surprised.

Many of the issues on this forum are Kia/Hyundai-related. And it’s also the experience and assessment of mechanics like Scotty and Car Wizard and others that I personally know.  I also know plenty of family, friends, co-workers who owned Hyundai Motor Group products and never went back - they switched to Toyota and Honda due to issues and lousy experience. Also, you also cite Consumer Reports and JD Power like they are a credible source - take what they say with a grain of salt. BTW, I am a fan of reliability, durability, longevity, good engineering regardless of brand. When they and any other carmaker builds good, long lasting products I will recommend them. I myself own 2 GM products that have beat the odds, but I cannot recommend GM and not ashamed to say GM is bad. I am honest with myself.  I don’t understand why people who own all these other products from automakers with less than stellar reliability get all up and arms when the truth comes out about a brand they own.

And Scotty Kilmer must be full of it too, to not recommend Hyundai Motor Group products, right?  I am sure the GM, Ford, BMW, FCA, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, etc., folks think so, never mind he has 53+ years experience working on cars (many thousands, tens of thousands), and has seen it all.

I hear you. Don't misunderstand me. I am on board with the whole Toytota/Honda longevity and reliability thing. I get it. I also believe that carmakers like Hyundai have their place. Put it this way: Our fleet is made up of Kias because our experience over the years has been that they have performed well, been reliable and low cost to maintain. We can't go out and buy fleets of Toyotas because of the premium they ask and Kia has gotten the job done for years and much lower cost. For people needing a reliable ride who don't have the Toyota/Honda money, they're a viable option. I don't put a ton of faith in CR or JDP, but they just come to mind as a couple of orgs that tend to be looked to for automotive ratings. There are others. Mechanics are often at odds with one another in their opinions, or at least that's been my experience. Some have loyalty to one or two makes over others and will swear by them. I know a couple who think Chrysler products are good cars (YIKES!). I don't put a ton of faith in Car Wizard after watching some of his videos. He's got good points on most things, but his Armada take is a pretty hot one. He downs it for an issue that is incredibly rare (in fact, his citing of cat particulate being sucked backward into an engine and blowing it is something I haven't been able to find another instance of anywhere). Are those cats a point of failure? They are. And what he described is also easily preventable, though can be a little more expensive to address than some want to do. But that engine is also rated to be good for over 250k miles according to motorrevier.com, so take it for what it's worth. Now I love my Nissans, but like you, I can call their CVT-equipped cars garbage and not recommend them. And I absolutely do. I'm not up in arms about Hyundai. I've got no dog in that fight. I was just genuinely curious as my experience has been completely opposite of what I often see described here.

@DayWalker
The worst thing about Hyundai IMO is that they’re not even that fun to drive.
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Speaking of being honest with your self, it reminds me of how the car I miss the most broke literally on a weekly basis. was a total mess from the day it got delivered from the dealer.
https://youtu.be/Dq4japKQ0AI
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And still I just can’t hate it, I actually love that car.
I really get the feeling of “I own this, I like this but I can’t recommend it to anyone” while being fully honest with my self that it was a pile of trash on wheels 😅

My experience with my GM vehicles has been the opposite of what others have encountered and say (including from Scotty), but that’s probability/statistics for you. My (good) experience does not make those vehicles (in general) any more reliable, however. On this forum, we do our best to recommend vehicles that most likely will have the fewest issues statistically (and over time). Sometimes the OP doesn’t want a Toyota/Honda or they only plan to drive several thousand miles a year (and not 10,000-20,000 miles a year) or they can’t afford the Toyota/Honda “money” so we suggest alternatives. I have also nit picked Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru. At the end of the day, when OPs ask for advice/recommendations/opinions they need to absorb those comments but then do the research for themselves, crunch through the numbers, and see what makes sense for them.

I completely agree with you. {black}:wink:

@s1c-em I have also heard of the catalytic converter injestion issues ruining the engine that Car Wizard talks about. It is an issue with Armadas, Titans, 2.5 Sentras, and 2.5 Altimas.

What you're describing is exceedingly RARE. Not to mention, you'd have a CEL staring you in the face for a good while before your cat media could disintegrate to the point of doing this. You would have to literally ignore the issue for quite a bit to have this happen. It's as simple as replacing the stock manifold with something like JBA LT headers which solves the issue permanently. There's nothing wrong with the engine itself. And dude recommended a Dodge Neon (granted, he did admit that he was having to reach to find any Dodges to say something positive about, but still). He can get all up outta here with that. The honest video would have been don't buy any of these.

Kia is the best. Who doesn’t like impromptu bonfires. I’m sure those awards are completely legit and trustworthy. JD power is definitely not a for-hire marketing company

Sorry, I saw a couple of other recent threads, but most were spent addressing the warranty. Seems most think they offer it because they need it and quality vehicles don't. I would beg to differ as GM vehicles are rarely quality products. Same with Dodge. If the aforementioned thought process were true across the board, those two should be expected to produce quality near the level of Toyota. They do not. They never have. I run operations for a college campus and we have a fleet of Kia Optimas, some hybrid, some just gas. They all feel solid, no creaking, no rattling, and drive very smooth. I've taken them on long trips with zero issues and they're quite comfortable. I will pick them over our Impalas any day of the week and twice on Sunday (but that's likely to be expected). We've had a Sedona as a rental while my wife's Odyssey was being fixed once and it, too, felt good and solid. I bought a Santa Fe Sport new in 2013 and an Elantra new in 2017 and only traded that one in a couple years later when my wife wanted a bigger SUV and I took over her second Odyssey. Never had so much as a hiccup with that car and it drove very well. Also never developed so much as a rattle. Our Odysseys, btw, weren't without issue. Couple of times the sliding doors quit working (no big deal). Had the A/C compressor go out while on vacation one year and then almost a year later, went out a second time (thankfully still under warranty from the previous replacement). Those issues were on our 2005. Had a 2008 white one (our second) that when we had to have the windshield replaced, the paint on the roof came off when we removed the tape. The PAINT. Turned out, it was a known defect in a number of Hondas and by the time it happened to us, there was no recourse. That's a low-quality defect if there is one and should have NEVER happened. I was livid. Anyway, just saying.....I deal with a multitude of Kias more than most and have had a couple Hyundais myself and never felt they were subpar quality. I test drove a Subaru a couple of years ago and it felt like I was riding in my dad's old 1986 Corolla. Didn't feel "cheep" so much as it just reminded me of a light, low-tech Japanese car. Nothing wrong with that, just a different feel. My Hyundais felt more like a Volkswagen when I closed the doors and not an 80's car. Totally anecdotal, I guess.

The bottom line is that it's unacceptable for a car brand to have so many spectacular failures. And it's not just what I read on the internet.... my own real life confirms it. Most owner's I talk to have had an engine or transmission replacement within the first few years, on top of many other unresolved outstanding issues. That is WHY Kyundai has to provide such attractive sounding warranties. And the warranties suck, by the way. They only apply to the original owner, so if you buy one used you're up the creek without a paddle. No other company I know does this.

Take it from Scotty. He's been working on cars longer than most of us have been alive.

And if you don't want to believe us or Scotty ... we had an actual employee come to the forum, and he didn't think very highly of them either. He sure as heck didn't want to own one. I'll try to find it for you.
...

Not another one of these threads..

Cool your tits, hoss. I was just asking. I was genuinely curious as to the sentiment.😆😆

I don't use "feeling solid" as a good measure if the car is reliable. I am with you on the chevys, they used to call the cavalier's a rattle trap. When I rode in my friends impala, I thought there was change rattling in the ashtray or something. I had a 2005 beetle for a short time years back, a friend nearly gave it to me with like 100k miles on it. It didn't have any major issues at that time, after all the transmission was replace 30-40k miles prior. I drove it on some longer trips, and it really was solid, and drove very well. In the three months I had it, the check engine light came on more time than my 4runner that I had for 5 years, and was 17 years old, and my corolla that I had for six years put together. I honestly don't have any first hand knowledge of people that have had bad Hyundais, but then again, I don't know anybody that has one. What I will say, almost every car Scotty rants about being a rolling pile of junk, I know at least one person with it, and had major issues.

BMW and Maserati.....c'mon man! {black}:suspicious: {black}:laughingoutloud:

Stellantis all the way!

2008 is prior to Hyundai's and Kia's slide in quality that resulted in severe engine and engine fire problems. They were actually pretty decent from around 2005-2010.

It's all about statistics. There are always outliers, there will occasionally be a Kia going strong with 300,000 miles on it or a Toyota that craters before 100K. It's just a fact though that typically you are much more likely to have trouble with the Korean brands than a Toyota or Honda.

in fact, we had one user... @papi544 I think
He would make post after post, relentlessly defending Kia to the last breath. Problem was, he was just repeating himself and ignored what everyone else said, so I had to put a stop to it.

Are Kiahhhh! and Hyundon't paying your guys to promote them or something?

Moi? I’m not promoting. I was just asking. I guess I won’t consider a Telluride a few years from now, but everything I’ve heard and read about them has been nothing but good. But don’t get me wrong, I like Toyota and Honda just fine. I’d buy a Hyundai long before a Chrysler, though. {black}:laughingoutloud:

Now, is a Chrysler really a good comparison...

Haha does that apply only on American ones?

Some American cars are pile of jinks too.

So it's better to avoid any kia/Hyundai cars no matter where they're made?

Well, even Scotty has pointed out VW fit and finish feels pretty solid and I agree. But yeah, I looked up the engine fire thing. So that’s a pretty recent development that I hadn’t heard much about. No denying that’s not a good look for them. As you said in one of those other threads, 1 in 100 odds aren’t good. He’s right about that and it’s good perspective.

Y’all settle down. I won’t buy another Hyundai. 🤣🤣🤣

when did he point that out? VW fit & finish is awful and I think he mentions that fairly often

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mfx21wWKzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzzMxnMbFoY

He mentioned it in the one about the new Jetta being terrible (in which he never actually called it terrible, I don’t think 🤔😆).

Eh, that’s just US VW - they cram big engines, complex wet-clutch DCTs and cheap out on manufacturing.
A Škoda Fabia (VW Polo based) or Škoda Octavia (VW Jetta based) made in the Chez Republic with a dry clutch 7 speed and a 1.2L engine are actually just solid, cheap, efficient and nice to drive method of transportation.

@dan

"Czech"

Kia fanboys: "My Kia has 42 000 miles and has no issues at all! They are just as reliable as a Toyota.", "Kia Stingers appreciate, they don't depreciate and Kias now have high resale value!"

Me: these people clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Also Me: inserts Scotty laugh*

I don't like Hyundai, most of the time I'd suggest getting a different car,
BUT:
Where I live they have almost 40% marketshare - Hyundai and Kia are considered to be workhorses, 4/5 and 6/10 best sellers are Hyundai-Kia products (And it ain't the cheap ones)
That's also the theme in Europe, Hyundai-Kia ranks 4th by sales amount and their cars are very popular with Sportage being the 3rd best selling SUV overall, and the Tuscon has been in top 10 best sellers for as long as I can remember them making it.
Also their HEV/EV game is incredibly strong, In 2025 that'll more than half of the sales according to them (so far it's 1/3).
Here / in Europe owners of Hyundai and Kia are usually satisfied... I get that DCTs and big GDi engines aren't made correctly, but an A6 conventional automatic with an MPI engine - much better than a VW TSI DSG. And in many cases it's just better than Honda that just keeps surprising me with constant new defects and worse warranty coverage than Hyundai.
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In the US that they only offer the worst cars they make - and it works out for them, they quite a few cars.

It was especially rough on the European market when they needed to compete with cheap and incredibly fun cars like the SEAT IBIZA
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https://youtu.be/D_tc53vE3Rk

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Hyundai also tried making slightly bigger cars then their competition in each class but that didn’t last much after Škoda released the Rapid that is still the golden mark of practically in a small family car. 

What are your experiences with Seats and Škodas? What models are OK and what not?

On all their models they face reliability issues, the VW 1.8L is known to burn oil, the 1.2L is known for timing chain issues, the Seat Ibiza recirculation flap is $250 in parts alone and it fails on all of them. And on almost all eurospec models the DSG7 mechatronic is bound to fail sometimes even before 25k miles. So basically they’re all tiny disasters.
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Well, these cars (as for the petrol versions) are all built to a different standard. They’re not turned to last much but instead they’re low cost and fun rides.
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I’ll use UK pricing converted to USD to explain.
A Toyota Yaris 1.5L 115hp (Hybrid, that’s the only option) costs $30k comes with a CVT, not many features at all and it’s just a boring old not fun to drive small hatch.
By the time you spec up a seat Ibiza to the same price (Xcellence Lux) you basically get not only a much nicer interior, but firm sporty suspension, much better handling, a 7 speed dual clutch, and basically a car that you can’t even really compare to the Yaris.
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A family member of mine used to be a Toyota guy until he drove a Škoda Rapid and he immediately switched sides.
He got a used 3 year old Škoda for the price of a 10 year Corolla with a year of warranty still left on the DSG and he’s perfectly happy with it although he knows it’s not a very reliable vehicle and that his engine already has oil consumption at only 70k miles and that the cooling system already is starting to rust.
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A friend of mine bought a nissan rogue, against her husband's judgment, and she knew my views. She just liked the way it drove so much better than a cr-v or rav4 that she was willing to buy new transmissions every now and then. Some people just either don't plan to keep the cars that long, or are willing to risk it because they like the way it drives or handles better etc. I like that Scotty warns people, I do the same thing for my friends, sometimes they listen, sometimes they go Rogue on me.

@nlord Yep, I agree with her, I did the same.
My daily driver, for the last 2 years, is a Ford Focus with the dreaded Powershift because it was much cheaper, drives much better, had very low miles, much newer and bigger then other cars in my budget.
Like the rouge the focus has a major flaw with it's dual clutch transmission, but I just don't mind paying and swamping in a refurbished/new transmission in hopefully at least another 50k-60k miles once this one begins to crunch or have internal issues - even factoring the price of a new transmission it's also just financially worth it.
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Sometimes, as long as you don't drive too much, getting a car that has one specific flaw because of it's price, safety, comfort or driving experience is just worth it. with most transmissions, if you drive in a reasonable manner, and change the oil frequently enough - it is going to last you at least 120k miles.
It's just important to know what you're getting into.

@Dan Yeah nothing wrong with that, I drive anolder 98' f-150 because I got it free from my stepfather with 56k miles. Will it last as long as a tacoma, no way. The way I maintain it though, and the limited amount I drive it, it will likely be fine for a long, long time.

Well, I disagree.
The reason why Hyundai-Kia, and many others, get away with selling crappy cars in North America - is because the consumers are not educated on what they purchase.
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Instead of going to draconian methods of regulating such issues on a "case-by-case" basis, the correct way IMO is to facilitate distribution of information. Such as all manufacturers being required to disclose estimated lifespans and for the gov to release statistics from insurance corporations.
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Also, They do offer some good cars on all markets (you just have to know about it)
For example in North America, the Hyundai Kona base powertrain looks very promising to me. A 2.0L petrol Atkinson engine (improved NU-series with oil nozzles, not a crazily complex thing like the Kappa) mated to a very dependable conventional automatic - a $20k SUV with 150 horsepower that gets 30MPG from what should be an incredibly durable powertrain.
(only time will tell, and it's going to be hard to find info as most Kona sold, at least were I live, are horrid 1.6 T-GDI mated to ShifTronic DCTs)

Absoluely not. What a waste of taxpayer money. It's not the government's job to review cars. Hyundai builds death traps. End of story.

You could put billboards all over the city warning people, but consumers will still buy them for the gadgets. Just get them out.

Hi, I'd just like to point out I did not say that,
I said that I believe the gov should require corporations to publish accurate data (lifespan by manufacturer, and insurance companies to release overall stats for each model). I do not call for any direct action, or for the government to waste any tax payer money.
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I must say that I disagree on Hyundai-Kias being "death traps", when looking at data,
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death rates from Hyundai-Kia cars continue to be bellow average on most recent models. Not as good as Volvo, Chrysler, Volkswagen, Subaru - but better than Nissan, GM and many other products.
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As far as fire concerns, here's data:
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The average fire rates across the industry are 3,474 per 100,000 in hybrids, 1,529 per 100,000 petrol/diesels.
So naturally with millions sold, tens of thousands of cars will catch on fire throughout their lifetime regardless of the brand.
Hyundai-Kia are 2.5 times more likely to catch on fire than the average car, and it sounds dramatic but, that's how it is with small numbers. Even if the situation has changed and it is now 4x, then still.
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Just to illustrate how much 2.5x times is, that's the difference between the Subaru Legacy's death rates compared to the Toyota Camry (but it's just minuscule anyway 0.0225% difference, both are very safe)
Additionally the difference between the death rates in a Honda HRV is 4x higher than in a Nissan Juke - and yet the difference is so small in real world numbers that it's negligible.
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I have not seen any numerical evidence that Hyundai-Kia products are death traps. 560 people die a year in the US as a result of a car fire (based on 2018 data) possibly (I do not know the number) 20-30 of those have died in a Hyundai-Kia - but those cases in particular get sensationalized.
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I think Hyundai-Kia fire concerns are over represented.

Yes you literally did say that. you said "for the gov to release statistics "
You said "facilitate the distribution of information". Then who?

how exactly are HMG "over represented"??
One year ago the number of HMG cars recalled for this issue was 7.3 Million. I expect that number has grown more since I've seen HMG in the new multiple times since then. That's 'negligible' to you?

And then, the vehicles that were "repaired" under recall were STILL catching fire. And if that wasn't enough, HMG blamed owners for the problem. That's beyond criminal incompetence. That's malicious intent! Listen to what the whistleblower said ... HMG COVERED UP THE PROBLEMS. Reports say the recalls still don't catch all the engine failures, so the numbers are going to keep going up.

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How many other cars come with a warning that you shouldn't park them indoors?
How would you like to be driving a fireball at 100kph and the brakes don't work?

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Yes, I know electrics are dangerous too. They shouldn't be on the road either.

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Look I now that ever since you bought you Hyundai that you're a staunch defender. We've had this argument before and I'm not interested in starting it again because you really start to get desperate with lies and irrelevant information. As I recall, in the end you admitted to buying one because they're cheap.

> 'Yes you literally did say that. you said "for the gov to release statistics " '
I said "The gov to release statistics from insurance corporations", a web page with pure data supplied by the private industry. No where have I said the government should test vehicles, as one may infer from the reply "It's not the government's job to review cars"
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> 'You said "facilitate the distribution of information". Then who? '
The US federal government has almost 2,000 different websites and information systems, one additional page with data generated by outside sources (namely insurance companies) - Is not a big deal.
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> ' how exactly are HMG "over represented"?? '
Out of the annual almost 600 deaths and over 200,000 instances - the share of Hyundai-Kia fires shown in the media is much larger than the actual share of Hyundai-Kia car fires.
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> ' One year ago the number of HMG cars recalled for this issue was 7.3 Million. (...) That's 'negligible' to you? '
Well the result is that on average, according to the IIHS, the average Hyundai-Kia petrol is slightly more at risk of a fire than an average Hybrid (a Hybrid going up in flames in 3 times more common than a gas car, Hyundai-Kia averaged at about 2.4 times worse.)
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A good way to test this is with the people who are best with data, insurance companies.
Insurance companies work on slim margins (2%-3%), so there is a price difference between car models.
Higher risk cars cost more to insure than lower risk cars, given the supposed much higher risk of a fire on Hyundai-Kias - you'd expect that the insurance will be significantly more expensive - but it's not.
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> "And then, the vehicles that were "repaired" under recall were STILL catching fire"
All cars catch fire, on the worst performing Hyundai-Kia model 0.042% of cars will end up going up in flames.
Yes that is more than the average 0.017% but it is within reason.
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> "That's malicious intent! Listen to what the whistleblower said ... HMG COVERED UP THE PROBLEMS"
Well that's how business is. It's quite common to try and coverup mistakes, especially in the transport industry.
I can give you countless examples of successful and un-successful coverups. (like this, many people died, but the coverup was a success https://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/political-social-justice/boeing-parts-scandal.html)
It's just a typical thing you have to deal with when you're working at a place that produces products, expensive mistakes happen and you're trying to see how to minimize the economical damage.
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> 'How would you like to be driving a fireball at 100kph and the brakes don't work? '
And again, by data, the chance to die in a Kia Optima is 2x less than in a Nissan Maxima, Chevrolet Malibu, or a Jetta.
The Hyundai Sonata has performed worse than the optima, but it's still just a bit worse than a Mazda6.
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> 'Yes, I know electrics are dangerous too. They shouldn't be on the road either'
So far I haven't seen any evidence of that either, some models came with a slightly higher risk of fires but overall, like many others, the Nissan Leaf is the safest car in its category (by a factor of 10).
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> ' Look I now that ever since you bought you Hyundai that you're a staunch defender '
That's false, I've had Hyundais for years. Have been critiquing them, and have been loving some.
The reason why I keep buying Hyundais is because they are good cars for the money, I can't see my self spending the extra.
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> ' I'm not interested in starting it again because you really start to get desperate with lies and irrelevant information'
Well that does seem like a personal attack, against forum policy, if I ever seen one.
Anyhow, I won't get personal and will just say that: all of my information is with notations, links and proof.
I'd love to see proven information on higher risk / mortality rate of Hyundai compared to Nissan or any other brand.
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> "As I recall, in the end you admitted to buying one because they're cheap."
Yes, I buy Hyundai/Kia/Ford products because they're good from a financial standpoint - I like to buy less expensive cars with cash and replace them when I feel I got bored with it, long before I have to perform any repairs.
But this is just personal preference.

I have the same suspicion.

Oh, great! But i am guessing they don't make'em the same everywhere, alot of americans dislike them for the lack of build quality

What’s the mileage on the Accent? I’m guessing less than 100,000 miles? If any of my cars fell apart <100,000 miles, I’d be livid. 140,000 kms is what 87,000 miles? Wait till you cross 100,000 miles. Then let’s see how your Hyundai holds up mechanically. That’s when they usually tend to start falling apart. And no, Hyundai quality has gotten worse post 2010. This thread is a testament to that..

Yes. I hope that it holds up post the period you mention.

U're talking about the ones sold in america?

lol pretty much. Idk what they are like outside of North America, but I would assume that they are no different.

From what we've seen, they're prone to serious problems as soon as they leave the lot.

This has already been covered on this forum in depth. (Topics merged.)