Scotty,
I recently bought a 2005 Lexus ES330 with 268,000 miles, auto, from a private party. The previous owner was an older lady who had owned the car for 12 years. She had a three inch thick folder full of service receipts for the car, including oil changes every 5000 miles. I called the dealership where she had the car serviced and they confirmed the information.
Yes, the car has a ton of miles, but these cars should last a very long time, right?
My question is after I drove it about 20 miles, mostly on a highway at 70-75, the check engine light came one (two days after I bought it!). My scanner shows the P0420 and P0430 code for both banks. I would not think that both banks would go out at the same time if the catalytic converters were bad. It seems unlikely that both would go out at the same time. So, I'm thinking there is probably an exhaust leak somewhere. Looking under the car, it appears that the flex pipe is in poor shape and may be the culprit. Would this be the most plausible explanation? Would a leaking flex pipe cause both banks and four total codes (2 for bank 1 and 2 for bank 2)? Or am I hosed?
Thanks!
3.0L or 3.3L ?
Yes. Exhaust leaks can trigger those trouble codes.
Is that a reasonable assumption?
umm... both cats should wear down at the same rate.
Also, the codes you see depend on your oxygen sensor configuration.
If you want to adopt another kid, I might be available. I had to buy my own cars (though my dad helped find them - cars his colleagues were selling. As I recall, a 1954 Ford Fairlane and later a 1963 Chevy. Lexus didn't exist then, but the car you bought for your son is better than any of my early cars. And all the purchase price came out of my impoverished pockets.
I recall paying $100 for the Chevy and selling it for $125.
Those are usually the two attributes culprits: bad cats or exhaust leak. If you can find the leak and if it is a leak, that should be easy to fix. If it is bad cats, spending on your state, you may or may not need to fix it.
Yes, the car has a ton of miles, but these cars should last a very long time, right?
Even with the best possible maintenance, things are still moving, flowing, spinning, and wearing out with millage.
drove it about 20 miles, mostly on a highway at 70-75, the check engine light came on
She might not have driven it that way in a while, who knows.
That's why you should connect an OBD2 scanner pre-purchase and read the live data and look for anything suspicious,
For example, if the car would say "distance since cleared: 5" you'd know you're probably being scanned.
Unless you have cleared the codes, check if she cleared it before sale - it might have been a scam!
My scanner shows the P0420 and P0430 code for both banks
Check the exhaust system visually, check that nothing is leaking, check the O2 sensor wiring.
Also just clean the intake, the throttle, MAF, MAP, pretty much anything that can cause bad data.
But if you open live data and you see the pre-cat and post-cat O2 sensors bouncing the same - it's probably dead cats.
I would not think that both banks would go out at the same time if the catalytic converters were bad.
It seems unlikely that both would go out at the same time.
Neither do I, but I do think the lady has cleared out the codes before sale, so both cats probably died long ago.
Looking under the car, it appears that the flex pipe is in poor shape and may be the culprit
You might get incredibly lucky if that's the issue! It can be the reason for the codes.
Check with the dealer if they have ever checked for that issue!
Or am I hosed?
You might be.
I don't know if that's a thing in your area, but where I live, the solution often would be aftermarket cats.
I recently had a cheap $600 Chinese made aftermarket cat installed on my Corolla, and except for it sounding a bit funny, apparently they work and last quite a long time.
I would think that would be more likely to trigger codes on both banks than for both cats to go out at once. Is that a reasonable assumption?
MountainManJoe, I get what you are saying, but rarely do things happen at exactly the same time like that. The wear that the cats see is going to be slightly different from one side to the other. Theoretically, yes, the cats would see exactly the same rate of wear, since they both service three cylinders on the same car, but there will be some variation of burn rates, different exhaust manifold configuration, or manufacturing differences.
I'm not meaning to be rude or anything, but I do understand that the cat on the right side and the cat on the left side do the same thing and have done it for the same period of time. I'll try a different scan tool and see if I can determine which sensors are throwing the codes.
Time for an Italian tune-up with Gumout Multi-System Tune-Up AND TopTier Gas (Costco, Chevron)... You're bound to hit some codes because of the enormous amount of build-up throughout the fuel system. Driving it that hard after years of underuse probably broke a ton of carbon sludge buildup off...
Something else, with old-school oil, 5k miles is nice but it's really 6-months that's important too... The gas that gets into the conventional oil breaks it down.
My dad put around 1k miles a year on his Buick with a 3800 Series III 6-cylinder. 14MPG. After I got it, put fuel treatment/TopTier in it and drove it intentionally over an hour each way, it was 26MPG after one tank.
I wouldn't assume "underuse" on a car that has averaged over 15,000 miles per year since it was new. Maybe gasoline additives will help "clean it out", but the immediate problem seems to be codes. I'm not a praying guy but I'd wish for holes in each exhaust system. Easy to replace. See if the codes resolve.
The older lady didn't have it for the first 5-6 years, I doubt she was putting that much on it. The odds are exponentially in favor of a high-mileage used-car purchase. That 15k a year is a stretched out average based on two owners. over 17-18 years.
I would always check the cheap solutions FIRST. Like Scotty says.
You have a point, FutureSoCalEscapee. That may be something I need to do and I was considering it. The lady averaged around 15k a year, so it wasn't sitting very much.
I'll give that a try and see what happens before I do anything else. I need to pass inspection very soon, though!
@TuaLaoch You don't know if the lady averaged around 15k a year, because there was the original owner who in the first 5 years may have driven 200k or more. I just saw a 3 year old 2019 Camry SE for sale with 174,818 miles on it. That dude drove nearly 60,000 miles a year! So perhaps in the 12 year ownership by the "older lady", it was underused especially in the latter years as she probably drove less and less. And it may not matter one way or the other if the cats are bad. I was just expressing that @FutureSoCalEscapee may have a point.
Duh, I should have thought of this last week @TuaLaoch... Check her records and see the mileage from the service records over the last three years or more. You'll have dates and mileage right there...
MountainManJoe, I get what you are saying, but rarely do things happen at exactly the same time like that.
It really doesn't matter. Even if one cat fails a month before the other, you're not going to cut up the exhaust, replace one side and leave the old cat on the other side. Not after that kind of mileage. That would be really foolish.
Replace the bad section since you need to anyways, check the vacuum lines & try a known good o2 sensor & see if that clears the code as you swap it around the banks. If all that fails, cat backpressure test:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qJTmddbOxMk
Even if it is a complete piece of junk the kid will run whatever car you buy into the ground so you're best off handing something like that to him & not worrying if things break or the car gets totaled.
It's a very small percentage of young drivers who don't mangle their first vehicle.
