Which used Toyota do you think best fits what I'm looking for?
First, a big Thank You to Scotty and community members! I'm new to this forum. I had joined it a few years ago, then left because I needed to spend time on other things ;). Scotty taught me everything I know about cars through his videos, and I am eternally grateful him. He reassured me back then that I should keep my car.
Why I'm posting: I don't have a car now and I need one. So I'm looking for a car, and I feel that I should buy a used one. I would buy a new car if I had more money than I could spend, but that isn't the case.
The situation: I feel that I should get a Toyota because Scotty feels that they are the most reliable cars, and I trust his opinion. I feel a dilemma between older and newer cars. I feel like I should look more towards cars a few years old (like 2018 or newer) because of the newer computerized sensing and collision warning capabilities, but part of me is an old-fashioned purist. My last car was a 2002 Honda Accord that I bought used in 2003 and kept for 15 years. Only reason I got rid of it was to move into a city where I didn't need a car. Older cars are less stress because I don't have to care/worry about dings and complex parts failing.
Factors in choosing a car: reliability, comfort, price (initial price and ongoing costs), car age, color, gas mileage, and safety features.
Reliability: This is the top priority and why I'm looking for a Toyota. To me, reliability means that the car works as close to 100% of the time as possible, and the frequency of needing repairs is as low as possible.
Comfort: I would like a car that is a bit upright. I was okay driving a sedan for years, but would have liked a more upright position. I recently came across and considered an Echo, but I rejected it because of low crash safety due to it being a lightweight, small car. I think I would feel comfortable in a RAV-4, though it feels a little cramped (been a long time since I sat in one). I drove a 2016 Corolla for work a few years ago, but I felt my Honda Accord was more comfortable--there was more headroom (in the Corolla, my head would touch the ceiling when I would sit up straight). I have a very long upper body in relation to my legs; I feel that the front seat head clearance needs to be about 40 inches (40.5 would be even better). The distance to the pedals is a factor. It needs to be as short as possible, or my legs won't reach the pedals comfortably. I don't really want to have to get pedal extenders, but I will if that's the best way to be comfortable and safe.
Safety: Seems that things like Electronic Stability Control would be important. Also the height of the vehicle. I've heard of vehicles going under other vehicles in crashes.
Price: I would like it to be no more than $10,000 if possible, but that may not be realistic. I could wait a while longer and save money to raise my budget to $15,000, or even higher. That would take a few months and I would need to pay a lot for a taxi to work, but if that's the wisest choice, I'll do it. Maybe I should buy a cheap old used car, save money for a few months, then sell it and buy the car that I want.
Color: would like a color that is very visible to decrease the probability of not being seen and getting into an accident. That I'll have to find on my own or maybe even get the car repainted (which seems impractical). I'm thinking yellow, but I feel like white would be fine.
Gas Mileage: I would like to not pollute that much but realize I may not be able to get a car that is both comfortable and fuel efficient. I feel that a hybrid is not a good choice for me because it's inconvenient to charge, and the probability of having high repair expenses is high.
Thank you,
What was your forum username when you joined last year?
@byinthrustwetrust, Unfortunately, I don't remember any more!
Sounds like you need to start looking for a Honda Fit..
What’s your height?
InThrustWeTrust (@itwt),
Thank you for that suggestion!
I enjoyed riding in Honda Fit. Someone gave me a ride in one years ago.
My height is 5 feet 8.5 inches, or a little less, but my torso is really long. I measured that the distance from my seat bones to the top of my head is about 38 inches (can't be accurate though). The distance from my seat bones to my thoracic curvature is about 25 inches, and from my thoracic curvature to the top of my head is about 15 inches. That's a 60/40 ratio of the two body segments.
I calculated that if the seat angle (angle of the back of the seat from a vertical line) is 20 degrees, I would need a clearance of about 38 or 39 inches for my head to clear the ceiling. I know that doesn't make sense with the measurements I gave but I think that I may have undermeasured my body length. I think that the Corolla front seat clearance is 39.1 inches. I hit my head on the ceiling because I made the seat back more vertical so I could reach the steering wheel and see out the front windshield.
I have very short tibia bones which are only about 14 inches long, and my pant inseam length is 28 to 30 inches.
If it wasn’t for price, I think a used fifth generation RAV4 would fit the bill. But those go for a pretty penny. I wouldn’t recommend the Gen 1-4 RAV4, as they may be too cramped for your taste. The 5th generation seems a little more roomie.
I also recommend the 4th and 5th generation Honda CRV. That may fit the bill for the most part. The 4th Gen would come closer to your price point. 5th Gen may still be expensive.
Otherwise the 8th, 9th, and 10th Gen Accord may fit the criteria. The 10th Gen may be out of your price range.
And the Camry within the last decade plus or minus a few years may be a good choice too to fit your criteria.
@Kaizen, here is what I found out so far. This is also for anyone interested. Thank you again!
RAV4 - looked up headroom, which is under 40 inches. May not be comfortable. Will try to find out more, such as sitting in one.
It seems to have issues with the transmission and powertrain in some cases. I feel a little scared about the the reliability. The transmission is 8 speed, which seems extremely complicated, and therefore susceptible to breakdown.
Honda CRV - will look at them. I did not love the performance in ones I've driven in the past, but I feel like the driver position was comfortable.
Accord - I could see myself getting an Accord, like I had for 15 years. The seating position is a little less than desirable. I feel like what's really important to me will become clearer as I test drive cars.
Camry - I looked up the dimensions. The headroom is the same as the headroom in a Corolla. Either 37 or 38 inches. I feel like this is going to be not enough headroom for me. I will try to find out the seating angle of the backrest. I will probably need to test drive one. I remember that the first time I sat in the Corolla, the ceiling was too low. This may mean that Toyota sedans are not the best choice for me.
Summary:
RAV4 - upright position is good, but headroom seems limited, and I'm concerned about transmission problems and acceleration. Also a bit concerned about driving stability (short wheelbase) in wind, and at highway speeds.
CRV - seems to have good driving position, but clunky. May be best choice overall.
Accord - not completely comfortable but performance, price, and lower repair costs are a plus.
Camry - may not have enough headroom
What I learned:
Bottom line is that comfort may trump reliability, cost, and performance. Also, price may limit safety features, so I may need to get a cheaper car now, then get a better car later.
Since the newer cars are out of my price range, I will either need to buy an old car or pay someone to drive me until I can buy a newer car. I feel like buying an older car is the right step, something like an older Accord, CRV, or maybe a Toyota.
If anyone knows of a good car with a lot of headroom, please let me know. I saw there is a small Nissan, but I don't want a subcompact.
I am looking for a telescoping steering wheel. Of several models listed in an article, I like the 2016 Dodge Charger, the 2016 Honda Accord, and the 2016 Toyota Camry. I will go and sit in different cars.
Comparing the CRV to the RAV4.
I drive the 4th generation, RAV4 and the 4th generation CRV frequently.
I can confirm some of your thoughts.
The 4th-RAV4 is SUPER fun to drive. Especially in sport mode. It shifts like I would in a manual transmission. But the interior feels more cramped. The 4th-RAV4 has about 50K miles in 6 years.
The 4th-CRV and 5th-CRV feel more luxurious and roomie in comparison. The CVT transmission does take some getting used to. Because we don’t feel the shifts as much. It may feel slow, but it is not. The CRV that I drive has 100K miles in 6 years, with just basic maintenance. The only two problems were the battery died in year 4. And also a funky rim that kept losing pressure. With that said the 4th CRV feels so much more luxurious/comfortable compared to the RAV4, and it’s not even a luxury car.
That sucks about the 5th-RAV4 transmission issues. My only direct experience with the 5th-RAV4 is with the hybrid which has a different transmission. With that said, you are right, the 5th-RAV4 isn’t as “stable” as the 4th-RAV4. They went more SUV rather than CUV on the 5th. And you can feel it. It is not as fun to drive as the 4th. It is hyperbolic, but the 4th felt like a sports car, well as sports car as a CUV can get.
Thank you, Kaizen! Wanted to make sure you knew that I had seen and appreciated this comment of yours, in addition to your comment suggesting the Honda Crosstour. I really appreciate learning of your driving experiences with the 4th generation RAV4 and the 4th generation CRV.
It's really cool that the 4gRAV-4 is super fun to drive. I will remember that. I feel that buying a RAV-4 used right now is out of my price range. But I will keep in mind that perhaps a used RAV-4 would be the "trophy" car I would want to get when I have more money. Tell you the truth, I feel a little nervous about the RAV-4 rolling over in an accident. I also feel that the long-term upkeep of the RAV-4 would be expensive because it would have expensive parts. I feel like the RAV-4 is kind of a unique car, and that, therefore, it would have hard-to-find parts in the used part and aftermarket part markets.
CVT--I feel intrigued. I did not really enjoy driving a 2016 Corolla with a CVT, but a CVT could be great because I would not have to worry about the shift transitions. I would love to drive a manual but I'm a little worried that it will be uncomfortable in stop-and-go traffic. I do love the control I have with a manual. It's the most fun driving experience! I use a manual to control the rpms and gear ratio that I have going around curves. Traction is better at higher RPMS (lower gears).
I've heard about the CRV losing tire pressure. My friend had an older one and this happened to him. Makes me think that something about the weight distribution of the CRV allows air to escape at the contact point between the tire bead and the wheel rim.
What did you enjoy about the 4th generation RAV-4 driving experience, @kaizen? and does the name, Kaizen, have a meaning in Japanese?
Thank you,
@etre2244
It may depend on your country or location in regards to parts for the RAV4. It is the number one selling SUV in America, so IMHO, I would think parts are available and not overly expensive. Older generation share things in common with the Corolla platform, and the latest generation shares things in common with the Camry platform. Heck, the current RAV4 had three sibling SUV’s: Toyota Venza, Lexus NX, and Lexus RX. The latter two a super popular. Just a guess on my part, but parts should be plentiful. I haven’t looked, just a guess.
With the CRV tire pressure, I think it may be the actual cheap rims. The CRV I drive upgraded the rims recently, and we haven’t had the low pressure problem come back… yet. Hopefully never. Who knows though.
What a really enjoyed another thread 4G-RAV4 driving was the control and feel of the car, especially when driving curves, hills, accelerating.
I love the option if normal, sport, and eco modes. If I need power, go to sport, and feels like a manual. If I want to save gas, go to eco, and the throttle changed to be more conservative.
The 4G-RAV4 drives different than the 5G-RAV4. I don’t feel as comfortable on curved and hills with 5G. Probably because it sits higher. It’s not a bad drive, just different.
I recommend test driving the CRV and the RAV4. Even try the different generations if you can.
If I can add one more car to your list. The 1st generation Venza. (I’d recommend the 2nd generation, but those are still expensive, since they are so new.) The 1st Gen Venza is kinda like the Honda Crosstour. Crosstour is sportier. Venza is more practical. Sorry to add another one to your list, I just remembered about it.
Kaizen roughly translates “continuous improvement” in Japanese, it is the explicit philosophy of Toyota, and IMHO, implicit to Honda. Honda doesn’t mention it in its literature, but you can tell by the way the run the company, they are all about kaizen too.
@kaizen, thank you so much! I am gonna savor this, like your other replies. If you have the time and interest, I invite you to read what I wrote to @itwt and @thechermuseum (see end of thread, posted within the last hour), and participate in the discussion about ergonomics and driving position. I was going to include you in that post, but I did not want to presume. Any further replies I make to your comment, I will put in a new reply, so they are in chronologic sequence.
One more model I would like to suggest.
The Accord Crosstour. It really wasn’t popular in its day, but probably would sell like hotcakes if they released it today. It was kinda ahead of its time. My only concern would be changing the timing belt on a higher mileage V6. But if you factor that in, you may find a deal.
I never got to drive one, but it felt like an Accord on steroids just sitting in it. It is basically the same platform.
Thank you, @Kaizen. This is wonderful information to me and I will savor it. I just went and looked at a 2002 Sequoia (Toyota). I did not buy it. Next, someone wants to show me a Hyundai Sonata from 2003 with 50,000 miles on it.
I have read through your requirements and necessary headroom, you tall mofo jk... In all seriousness I believe to have selected the perfect vehicle for you. Provided you find one in your area in good shape and not too high miles. Your best bet in my opinion is the honda element. Check out the headroom.
What a good thought! Thank you so much, @Brightlight27.
Also, to everybody/anybody, I feel like I should take over someone's lease for a few months or a year.
I have a Lexus RX. They are very reliable, offer many of what you mentioned in your questions and statements. Check out an older one, they often have much better features and comfort without sacrificing reliability. You can get used RX’s in any price range. I’ve seen many of them go over 300k miles. Mine is a 2014 and I’m absolutely in love with it. Being my first SUV, it feels great being up higher, but still feels like I’m driving a full sedan. They are loaded with options that most Toyota cars don’t have unless you get a top tier trim. Hope that helps. Just remember that the cost of reliability often comes up front in the form of purchase price instead of upkeep and repairs/ replacement. Stay away from Nissan by all means! You’ll get what you pay for.
Here is what I have learned:
1. I will need to get pedal extenders because my legs below the knees are shorter.
2. This will take care of my problem of bumping my head and I can probably get into a regular sedan. Because I was scooting my seat way forward to reach the pedals. If I don't do that any more, I can also put my seat back a little bit and bend my knees more, and I will put a shim under my thighs to support my knee bend. This will lower my eye level to the level of the windshield.
3. I would like to take over a lease. This will be affordable and I'll have a pretty new car.
AaronMD (@thechermuseum),
Thank you so much!! I really appreciate your answer. Every person's experience and knowledge help me, and I am so glad to have this form of support going through a stressful (though fun) car selection, search, and buying process.
I love the idea. Always admired the RX300 and never felt that I could have one. I'd love to have a Lexus, but haven't given myself permission to have one. I always say to myself, "get a Toyota, you don't need a Lexus".
I want to get a cheap car now and sell it in favor of, in a few months, leasing a new one with all the newest safety features. Money is tight right now, so I feel like a used Lexus is out of reach. My intention right now is to buy the cheapest Toyota sedan that I can and hope that I have minimal repair expenses for the next three months.
I also feel like I can solve the issue of needing a tall cabin by using pedal extenders so I can sit a bit further from the steering wheel, where the ceiling is a bit higher. In the Corolla (company car) I drove a few years ago, my head was hitting the ceiling close to the sun visor.
But yeah, an Rx300 would be a dream car. Just yesterday, I saw an old ES300 for sale and wanted it. But I don't like leather seats; cloth seats are a non-negotiable because I slide around in leather seats and never feel comfortable.
I'm open to changing my strategy. Every reply gives me new ideas and inspiration.
Thank you,
This reply is for @itwt (InThrustWeTrust) and @thechermuseum (AaronMD):
I appreciate the interest both of you have demonstrated in my quest to find the right car for my body proportions and body type.
I just measured my body a different way and this is what I came up with:
Standing upright with bare feet, the distance from the floor to my sits bones is about 26.5 to 27.5 inches. Call it 26.5.
If my height is 5 feet 8.5 inches, the distance from my sits bones to the top of my head (or crown) is 68.5 inches minus 26.5 inches, which is 42 inches. I will call this my crown-rump measurement (the term, "crown-rump length" comes from measuring babies at birth).
I am going to define the term "seat angle" or "SA" as the angle between the seat back and a vertical line. This describes how far the seat back is lowered, or "reclined".
With a crown-rump length of 42 inches, the approximate front seat headroom required for my head to clear the ceiling would be 42 inches multiplied by the cosine of the seat angle. At a seat angle of 20 degrees, the front seat headroom required for my head to clear the ceiling would be about 39.5 inches.
These figures make sense to me and are consistent with my experience of sitting in the 2016 Corolla.
Here are a couple of images I found. These should help. Links to the articles containing the images are posted:
1.
https://mimpole.blogspot.com/2021/02/how-is-legroom-measured-in-cars.html
I liked this one because it has figures which show a mannequin in a car cockpit. It focuses on the lower body and legroom. It's from a blog entitled "MIMPOLE". It's on blogspot dot com.
2.
http://specials.indiatoday.com/autobild/autobildroadtestincar.shtml
Please note that link #2 is not secure. It's not https. Instead, it's http. So you may choose not to visit it.
I liked the image in this article from the magazine, "Autobild India" from the web site, indiatoday dot com, because it has a figure of a car showing the interior dimensions relevant to headroom and legroom.
This entry is addressed to @kaizen, but of course, it's also for anyone who's interested.
I'm going to post your last comment to me here, and add my responses between the parts of your comment. I am going to put your original text in bold, and leave my responses in plain text:
It may depend on your country or location in regards to parts for the RAV4. It is the number one selling SUV in America,
Cool!
so IMHO, I would think parts are available and not overly expensive.
Love that. This expands my awareness.
Older generation share things in common with the Corolla platform,
Very cool...
and the latest generation shares things in common with the Camry platform.
Interesting. Will keep in mind in case I get interested in the latest generation.
Heck, the current RAV4 had three sibling SUV’s: Toyota Venza, Lexus NX, and Lexus RX.
That's very interesting; I appreciate knowing that. I especially like it when I find out about the connections between brands. What's the difference between a Lexus NX and a Lexus RX? I know that the RX is like a mini SUV with a hatchback. Never ridden in an NX, I don't think.
The latter two a super popular. Just a guess on my part, but parts should be plentiful. I haven’t looked, just a guess.
Noted and appreciated.
With the CRV tire pressure, I think it may be the actual cheap rims. The CRV I drive upgraded the rims recently, and we haven’t had the low pressure problem come back… yet. Hopefully never. Who knows though.
This is very interesting. I appreciate knowing it. I am very interested in failure modes of parts.
What a really enjoyed another thread 4G-RAV4 driving was the control and feel of the car, especially when driving curves, hills, accelerating.
That's awesome. I loved hearing that. Now I'm more interested in the 4G-RAV4. I'm putting it on the back burner of my mind for now due to initial cost concerns. But if that ends up being the best vehicle for me, I may buy one for long-term.
I love the option if normal, sport, and eco modes. Wow!
If I need power, go to sport, and feels like a manual. If I want to save gas, go to eco, and the throttle changed to be more conservative.
Very interesting. I've tried those things on rental cars. Kinda cool, but I was afraid they would break eventually.
The 4G-RAV4 drives different than the 5G-RAV4. I don’t feel as comfortable on curved and hills with 5G. Probably because it sits higher. It’s not a bad drive, just different.
Very interesting. I feel that because of this difference, I will stay away from the 5th generation RAV-4. Coincidentally, I just wrote, in response to someone else's question about a Ford truck, about my driving experience with a Ford Bronco II that I had many years ago. If you want, I will show you where my "answer" is.
I recommend test driving the CRV and the RAV4. Even try the different generations if you can.
Okay. I will keep that in mind. I feel pressure to find a car quickly, so I feel like I don't have time to go test drive cars at a dealership. Plus, I don't have a car, so travel is very expensive for me.
I have to tell you that when I test drove a RAV-4 many years ago, I immediately did not like it because I felt cramped. I felt like it had the aerodynamic and stability disadvantages of a truck, but wasn't roomy enough for me to feel like I could relax in it. It was also very underpowered, I felt. I did not like the gear ratios. I was also concerned about crash safety.
If I can add one more car to your list. The 1st generation Venza. (I’d recommend the 2nd generation, but those are still expensive, since they are so new.) The 1st Gen Venza is kinda like the Honda Crosstour. Crosstour is sportier. Venza is more practical. Sorry to add another one to your list, I just remembered about it.
Please don't apologize. The more options the better! I am at the phase where anything I learn is of help.
Kaizen roughly translates “continuous improvement” in Japanese, it is the explicit philosophy of Toyota, and IMHO, implicit to Honda. Honda doesn’t mention it in its literature, but you can tell by the way the run the company, they are all about kaizen too.
Yeah, now I remember!! Thank you for telling me that. I love that concept.
Lexus NX vs Lexus RX
The NX is smaller, the RX is bigger.
The NX seems skinnier, and the RX seems wider.
Thanks!
1994 Toyota Camry XLE V-6:
What do you think?
1. Spoke to seller, he is a small time one man operation. He grew up in the car business. Family had a salvage yard in the past.
2. He can show me the car tomorrow.
3. The car is white. I like that. Can be seen at night.
4. Car is located in a different state. Will need to transfer title to my state.
5. 300,000 miles. He thinks mostly highway.
6. I looked up engine: 1MZ-FE
7. minor muffler leak
8. exterior looks great; interior looks great
9. I remember this car everywhere in the 90's. I wanted one. lol...
10. Beautiful lines and length
11. Asking $1100. I doubt he will budge much if at all; he said he makes a couple hundred bucks on a sale.
I feel this is a no-brainer. If you agree, what would you suggest I do to get it checked out? It's not very close to me so I'll have to pay a hefty car fare to get there. I don't know anyone who lives there. If I like the car I could see if he would hold it while I find a mechanic in his area to check it out. He probably knows many, and if he has integrity I could get a referral from him. But how could I find an objective mechanic?
Thank you,
No. Too old with too many miles.
okay, thank you.
After looking at a lot of used car ads, I feel like it is not going to be worth the money to buy a used car I would only keep for a few months. Instead I would rather pay someone to drive me twice a week to work and back. I would pay about $240 a week. I would want to do that until I want to buy or lease a car. I would like to learn more about car crash safety before choosing a car. So far it seems that Mazda has built the safest cars in the last few years. I like the Mazda design concept. The Mazda CX-5 seemed to be a car I would like. I would like to start another thread about either crash safety or Mazda, but I'll search old posts and maybe Mazda forums first. Thank you to everyone who read these posts. I appreciate the support I got from here, and I would like to thank Scotty, admins, moderators, and everyone who commented here.
I wanted to thank you for your responses/answers to my question about a used Toyota Sienna, which I had asked in response to another person's question about buying a used Toyota Sienna. I appreciate your answers, and I will take them to heart.
Thank you,
You're welcome @etre2244. The forum members and me are always there for you when you need it.