Hi Scotty,
I bought a used Toyota Avensis facelift (see picture https://www.driving.co.uk/car-reviews/2016-toyota-avensis-touring-sports-review/ ), manufactured in 2016, manual transmission, with 30 000 miles. It has a 2.0-liter D-4D diesel engine, 143 HP ( model 2WW engine). I live in UK.
When I had a closer look at the engine I’ve notice that it has BMW parts. When I did some research on the internet I’ve discovered that Toyota used the BMW N47D20 engine for this model. (here you have the article https://www.motor1.com/news/43085/toyota-verso-16-d-4d-powered-by-bmw-engine/ )
I want to keep the car for the next 10 years but now I’m thinking that if I’ll try to do this, it will transform into a money pit over the time.
Should I sell it or keep it?
Thank you!
Victor
I've got the same car (late 2015 Avensis with BMW 1.6d engine). Had no issues so far except for this week where I got a trouble code p00bd$07e8 but guessing that's a minor issue. Other than that, it's been great!
Also, I've had the car for 4 years without any issues. It's a great car for the money - Lots of space and tech, european (ish) design but does come with that BMW sourced engine so may not keep it much longer. I think you are good until about 7 years. However if it's under 100K miles and you're servicing though Toyota they'll extend the warranty for free so may be worth keeping up to 10 years if you do that...
Thank you! What gas mileage do you get with your car on the motorway and in general?
Well, personally I'm not a fan of BMW's N47 - it's definitely not the best engine out there.
As @Kaizen said, these are notorious for issues with their timing chain. mainly because the costs to replace the chain on these can get insane.
Looking online people also claim it has issues with the harmonic balancer and intake getting gunk built up inside of it - those aren't "major" issues as I see it.
The N47 usually does NOT fall apart, they just require a very annoying and costly chain replacement from time to time (I hear people claim it can be even before 60k miles)
Check the cost to do the timing job and realize that if you keep the car that's something you'll probably have to do in 20k-50k miles when the chain will show signs of going bad.
Make sure you get an accurate estimate for your car, I see people claim this job requires the engine to be removed from the car and you want a shop that factors that into the cost to has experience doing this job on other's cars.
If the estimates you get are too high, sell it. If it's reasonable and something that you'd want to invest in the car to keep it long term, why not - it's really not that bad of a car nor that bad of an engine.
Japanese cars and diesels don't mix that well - Toyota's own designed diesels are worse. The good Japanese engines available in Europe are mostly the late model year Petrol ZR series.
Generally, the best cars available in Europe are Suzuki Vitara 1.4 BoosterJet, Corolla E150 1.6/1.8 petrol (newer generations ones are alright, but get manual only on those) and the 3rd gen Mazda3/6 petrol.
Thank you for your answer!
From all the research that I’ve made, I couldn’t find anything regarding the timing chain issue on Toyotas. Also, Toyota didn’t make any recalls on the timing chain issue. But I could find a discussion regarding the engine burning oil.
I’ve found on this site ( https://car-recalls.eu/toyota-egr-recall-diesel-fire-13-21/) that Toyota has modified the BMW motor for its models. However, the exhaust gas recirculation and the cooling system remained from BMW.
I’m thinking to change the oil every 6000 miles and maybe it will be fine. What do you think?
It is clear that if I have to change the timing chain, is better to sell the car rather than replace it.
Well the engine hasn't been really "adapted" by Toyota - It's a BMW supplied N47D20 engine (with pretty much no changes, this doesn't mean they're interchangeable but internals pretty much match.).
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When it comes to searching for common issues on engines, recalls aren't what you're looking for - This kind of information is communicated in Technical Service Bulletins (and as far as I know, in Europe - there isn't an easy way to get access to them)
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From a quick google search, this engine DOES majorly stuffer from the timing chain issues, both according to a great website that stores a lot of Toyota technical information
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/03-08-16_engine_eng.htm#d-ww
And from owner's forums.
https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/186049-toyota-t27-d4d-20-engine-any-good/?do=findComment&comment=1487095
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So yeah, it probably will eventually probably need a new chain - but that's the reason why these cars usually go for so cheap used (compared to manual petrols)
BMW has made many attempts to correct this issue, but as far as the information that's available - they didn't manage to do it.
But on the bright side, I guess in the UK they'd know how to fix it, MINI also uses this engine
okay...so I have to sell it and buy a petrol one because otherwise it will transform into a money pit soon...:-(
That would not make it a "money pit". A "money put" is when your car constantly brakes down and no amount (or a huge amount) of money can make it right.
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In the case of the N47, it's just a chain that probably eventually will need replacement. It's really NOT THAT bad, Just check what's the costs to replace the chain if goes bad - and if it's reasonable (1k-1.5k) why not, just consider it part of the purchase price.
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It's not that petrol Toyotas don't have timing chain issues - a lot of them do. It just happens later in the cars' life and usually costs less to replace. BUT the reality of a lot of euro cars is that the chain will eventually stretch, so I wouldn't really get that worried about it as an indicator of a troublesome engine (if the issue can be fixed at a reasonable cost)
Yes, you're right. Initially I got freaked out because I know that BMW are money pits as they age. But I know that Scotty said that BMW engine's ar not too bad, but the biggest issue with them is the electric part, that when it breaks it costs a fortune.
This is what I wish. Not to fix the timing belt and after a short amount of time, something else to break down in this engine.
When Toyota collaborates with others, like BMW, they usually hold components up to higher standards, not to mention may change some features. But it’s not perfect.
With that said, the BMW version of this engine is plagued with timing chain issues. I recommend researching to see if the Toyota version of the BMW engine is affected by this. And if there is a problem, and you plan to keep it, that Toyota/BMW will fix the problem under warranty. (There may be a warranty period).
Thank you Scotty for answering my question! I was pleasantly surprised 😉🙂