SCOTTT! Just bought a 2002 Toyota Camry XLE 2.4 4 cylinder with only 85,000 miles. Runs amazing, well taken care of, no rust, inside is brand new. I've been reading a lot about the head bolt issues and head gasket issues. Are they actually THAT common on these cars? If I take care of it, can I expect 300,000 or 400,000 miles without this issue? (I don't really care if it happens after that - all cars have to die some how).
Some guys make it sound like they all get it no matter what really early. Most guys say it's only an issue if you overheat or bag your car. Are they right?
Sotty did a video review of this exact car, and said it would go forever, and never mentioned the head bolt issue. Has he ever spoken about it anywhere else? Do I own a good car, or a time bomb? Is this specific to toyota, or were head gasket issues common on lots of 4 cylinder cars with aluminum blocks? Help!
Hey man happy new year! My search went very well.
1) I am the second owner. The first owner was an old man who took amazing care of this car, and had all the paperwork and records. Never missed an oil change every 3000 miles, and did the coolant and transmission on time. (The car currently only has 85,000 miles, (confirmed), and is in AMAZING shape!)
2) I actually Emailed Scotty Kilmer (yes it was his real Email that he states in all of his videos). I asked him about how common this head bolt issue is. He replied! He said he's never seen it once in his career, and doesn't believe it's common atall.
3) I made a reddit thread in a toyota mechanic group, and asked about it on a toyota mechanic Facebook page also (asking about how common the head bolt issue is). Every single toyota tech and mechanic who commented all said it was not very common at all. They say they've each seen one or two have the issue out of hundreds or thousands of the 2002-2004 2.4 camrys that they've seen. Some said they've never seen one with the issue! They all assured me that the issue is "common" in the sense that it's known, but that in reality, almost all 2002 2.4 Camrys they've seen in the shop have gone the distance (often over 300,000 miles!) AS long as they're taken care of. And like I said, I'm the second owner, with all the paperwork, so I know mine has been taken care of, and it will stay that way! They also said the ones that DID get the head bolt issue had one common feature - overheating or poor maintenance! (I'm sure that there are SOME that got it anyway, but that was the pattern they noticed).... was it a design flaw? Yes. Is trouble from it it totally avoidable? Absolutely! They encouraged me that the issue is nothing I should loose sleep over, and I have a very solid engine! Most never see the issue, out of all of the ones that were sold! "Carcomplaints" is helpful, but it's not conclusive - remember, people ONLY complain there. Nobody posts there when their car lasts forever! And most of these cars do just that! OF COURSE car complaints will have complaints! That's what it's for! But after talking to guys who have all worked on countless of this engine, the verdict is that it's a bulletproof engine, and the issue is RARE! (Toyota DID do a bulletin about it, but I'm told that their standards for when to issue one are very low, because they have integrity)!!!
4) The oil burning problem on the 2AZ engines did not start until 2007. This has been confirmed by multiple sources, including Scotty Kilmer on YouTube, many other Mechanics (like carcarenut), and all of the Toyota Techs who ive spoken to. Any before 2007 that burn oil, are likely burning oil because they didnt get their oil changed on time. They used better Piston rings before 2007, especially in Japan! They did not switch their Piston rings to the bad ones until 2006-2007ish. I own a 2002 made in Japan, that burns absolutely no oil atall! The inside of the engine is clean as a whistle. I'm on 3000 miles that ive driven since the last change, and my oil Is still gold and still on max. So I have no reason to be worried about oil burning! I'll just keep changing it at 3000 miles with synthetic oil! (Toyota actually did a recall list on the Piston ring issue - my car isn't on it. None before 2006 are! Because they didnt have the bad rings!)
5) my transmission is smooth as butter. Scotty Kilmer has a video on YouTube with this exact car, same engine, calling it "one of the best, most reliable 4 door sedans ever produced". In that video, he gives some specific praise to the transmission, saying he's seen them with 500,000 Miles, still on the original transmission. I've done lots of research on this transmission, and have spoken to lots of toyota Mechanics about it now. If the fluid is done on time, and you dont bag your car, these transmissions last! Especially in the 4 cylinder! They're very reliable.
SO.... THE "STATS" ARE GOING GREAT!!! (I was never looking for stats, but like I said - just a bit of info from the RIGHT guys.. and I got it!) I have been very encouraged by my findings. I have learned that the 2AZFE is a very misunderstood engine, with the issues spread out over the years getting all clumped together as if all these engines had all the issues. In reality, my car is not prone to oil burning, as it has good rings in the year it was made, and the head bolt issue is extremely rare, and usually only happens with an over heat. This car is in top shape, and has not been overheated. I never plan to overheat it. I'm going to he preventative, so I have a thermostat, Rafiator, and water pump on the mail (all OEM)....
I am so very glad I did my research, and I am very glad with my choice of car. Can't wait to drive ot for many more miles to come!!! Woo-hoo!!!!!
This is a common issue on 2002 - 2005 Camrys. The best solution (or prevention) is the installation of Timsert threaded inserts and the use of ARP studs.
Is it worth doing this if the car has low Km, and has never been overheated? I have zero issues with the car, and don't see a point in doing such a big job "just incase".
@jordandudgeon99 - Then don't.
how common is the head bolt issue
How are those stats coming?
For some stupid reason, Toyota decided to screw steel bolts into aluminum (soft) threads, without using inserts ... on engine parts that undergo extreme pressures and constant heat cycling. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Of course they fail. The head bolts were such a big problem, that it prompted Toyota to redesign the engine block. Engine redesigns cost millions of dollars.
Still not convinced?...
If that's not enough, 2AZFE's are severe oil burners, leading to cylinder wall and piston damage, and if the oil gets too low, catastrophic engine failure. This problem was so bad (and so ignored) that people hand to band together to sue Toyota (still not settled 8yrs later). Toyota, who knew about the defect, of course denies any wrongdoing, and calls it normal. But quietly they redesigned the piston assembly (basically admitting guilt) while leaving owners out in the cold.
carcomplaints.com has given this car the "Clunker" title. But the number one problem they report for the 2.4L is failing transmission. (the U140E's are failure prone). #2 is head bolts and #3 is overheating (same problem).
Maybe it won't pop on you. Maybe it will and you'll ruin the engine or start losing gears. Problems start around 120k
So ... are you feeling lucky? Did you own it from new so you're intimately familiar with how well it was maintained?
You've got about 30k to 40k miles to go.
Anyways mountain man Joe! I'm going to bed. I hope you have a blessed new year brother. (I don't know how to post pictures Here. If someone can show me how tomorrow, I can post pics of the email scotty sent me, and pics of what the Toyota Mechanics all said.)
My wife and I did the best with what we had as broke students. You gotta drive something! And we're very glad with what we chose now!!! Got a steal of a deal too.
Anyway, like I said, going to bed - goodnight all!!! Much love for this site!
Lots of 80's camrys still going strong
Where?
You mean the odd rust bucket that's on it's way to the crusher?
For every one of those, how many millions of others are already in car heaven (or hell)?
Fair enough. Anyway- I'm only wondering a couple specific things that I want different peoples thoughts on - how common is the head bolt issue on the 2002 2.4 camry? Like more than half of them? Less than half? Is it more common that the cars go for a decent amount of KM before it happens? Wanting some more specific insight here (maybe even from a Toyota mechanic)?
they're known for it and that's all that matters. It's an issue that I simply don't want or need to deal with, and I don't have to because it's easily avoided by simply not buying one. Let us know when you find someone who has compiled the detailed statistics you're looking for.
What I'm asking really is reasonable, for the right person. If you're not that person that's okay. I already own one so that's why I'm curious. A Toyota mechanic whos seen alot might have an awesome idea of what sort of "common" the issue is, as "common" can mean many things. There's some questions that some can answer and some can't. And that's okay. I'm not looking for a lot, just a little from the right guy 🙂 I do appreciate this site alot.
It's over 20 years old. (Low mileage if true, but that seems a bit dubious.) Any car that age can be considered a time bomb. If it died tomorrow it still would have lasted a long time. How much longer do you expect it to provide trouble-free service? Assuming the 85K reading is accurate, to get to 400,000 miles at 12K miles per year would take over 26 years. Nothing lasts "forever".
All of that said, engine problems do appear to be at the top of the trouble list by a wide margin on that model with stripped head bolts leading the way:
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Camry/2002/
https://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/Camry/2002/engine/
It's already over 20 years old so it has already lasted a very long time. How much longer do you realistically expect it to last? Another 10 years? 20 years? More? I believe that in another post you mentioned wanting to get 400,000 miles out of it. With typical driving that would take another 26 years if the current mileage is accurate. Do you honestly expect that Camry to remain viable and relatively trouble-free until it's nearly 50 years old?
I guess I'm just expecting to get around 5-10 more years. Lots of 80's camrys still going strong 🤷♂️ ..... also, it's not very aged, as it's lived in a heated garage. Never seen a grid road, headlights still shiny even, etc. I know it's 20 years old, but nearly as aged as most 20 year old cars I guess is what I'm saying. Anyway, I guess I'm just asking about the reliability of this car as a whole.
But anyway - I don't feel like you really answered my specific questions about this specific car, and help with preventative mantnaince. So I'd love to hear from you or anyone on my specific questions (yes I have the age of the car in mind)
I certainly don't see any 80s Camrys in my area. Your 2002 model should be reliable for a while yet but age ultimately takes its toll.
Driving an older car is more economically viable if you can work on it yourself. Once little things start breaking down it can nickel and dime you to death if you have to take it to a mechanic for every little thing. (I drive old cars but I do my own repairs.)
Yep I can do most of my own repairs. Another example is scottys Celica. 10 years older than mine, but going strong. I'm not overly worried about the age, really you should see this engine bay.
Anyway, some specific advice about this specific car for preventative mantnaince, and thoughts on how many miles these usually rack up would be great - from anyone.
I also don't think my headbolt question was actually answered. People just talked about the age of the car on that thread too. So if anyone has any thoughts on how common that issue actually is in reality, post it here! Just looking for answers to the questions I asked.
But anyway - I don't feel like you really answered my specific questions about this specific car, and help with preventative mantnaince.
You're asking in large part the impossible - predicting the reliability of a 21-year-old car years further down the road.
As far as maintenance there is nothing particularly special about the Camry. Maintain it as you would any other vehicle for maximum life, paying particular attention to changing all fluids and filters on a regular basis, and fixing any small problems before they become big problems. (There are maintenance tips in the FAQ.)
Yep I can do most of my own repairs. Another example is scottys Celica. 10 years older than mine, but going strong. I'm not overly worried about the age, really you should see this engine bay.
Anyway, some specific advice about this specific car for preventative mantnaince, and thoughts on how many miles these usually rack up would be great - from anyone.
I also don't think my headbolt question was actually answered. People just talked about the age of the car on that thread too. So if anyone has any thoughts on how common that issue actually is in reality, post it here! Just looking for answers to the questions I asked.
Sure but that's Scotty taking care of that Celica. He has powers (and tools) far beyond the capabilities of most of us. (Heck, I drive a 1997 model with near 370,000 miles on it so it's doable.)
I also don't think my headbolt question was actually answered.
That question was specifically and completely answered by @doc in your previous thread:
This is a common issue on 2002 - 2005 Camrys. The best solution (or prevention) is the installation of Timsert threaded inserts and the use of ARP studs.
Fair enough. Was just wondering more specifically how common. I know nobody is surprised when it happens, but was wondering if maybe anyone who's worked for toyota has a rough (rough) estimate in mind. Is it like half? Is it way less than half? Is it more than half? That sort of answer... I know it's "common" but that doesn't say much, and depends on how one defines common. Ya know what I mean?
I understand, however if I were wanting to keep that car viable for as long as possible (certainly 5-10 years should be probable and more may be possible) and knowing it had that weakness, I would want to install the thread inserts and ARP studs as a preventative measure. That way I just wouldn't have to worry about that particular problem. It should be a pretty straightforward job on an inline 4-cylinder engine.
Here are the video links for where Scotty talks about the things i quoted him on! You can check them out!
2002 Camry review by Scotty Kilmer, praising it's reliability and transmission (he mentions in this video that they don't burn oil until the 2007 model - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5DMF8Zl5rk
Kilmer praising a 2003 2.4 Camry (same engine as mine exactly) with high miles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs6q9SC06Xk&t=282s
Scotty explaining that the oil burning issue starts in 2007 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yieRrIZkH_E
SCOTTY! Just bought a 2002 Toyota Camry XLE 2.4 4 cylinder with only 85,000 miles. Runs amazing, well taken care of, no rust, inside is brand new. I've been reading a lot about the head bolt issues and head gasket issues. Are they actually THAT common on these cars? If I take care of it, can I expect 300,000 or 400,000 miles without this issue? (I don't really care if it happens after that - all cars have to die some how).
Some guys make it sound like they all get it no matter what really early. Most guys say it's only an issue if you overheat or bag your car. Are they right?
Sotty did a video review of this exact car, and said it would go forever, and never mentioned the head bolt issue. Has he ever spoken about it anywhere else? Do I own a good car, or a time bomb? Is this specific to toyota, or were head gasket issues common on lots of 4 cylinder cars with aluminum blocks? Am I worrying for nothing? Help!
Why did you post post this again, a day after the first time? Did you miss the following when you read the forum rules? Please keep this rule in mind for the future. Thank you. (Topics merged.)
My bad man, won't happen again
Just bought a 2002 CamryXLE 2.4 with only 85,000 miles. Old man driven, very well taken care of. Perfect condition, getting a coolant flush in a week, as the current coolant is a bit acidic, with some debries from sitting for 3 years, but that's totally all that's wrong with it. Oil stays gold and on full between changes, so I'm sure the engine is clean! What's the average longevity of these cars in real life? I know some people gripe about the 2002 2AZ FE, but other people swear by it. Thoughts? I love this car and want to take it the distance! Any advice how to do that?
I've done lots of research
You sure did. Well done and thanks for the feedback. Food for thought. I'm even going to bookmark this topic for others.
Enjoy your well looked after Camry and happy new year 🙂
I don't know how to post pictures
To post an image here, it needs to be uploaded to sharing website (your choice) and then just paste the link. There is a list of free host sites here.
I don't know how to post pictures Here.
The instructions for photos are hidden away in an obscure post misleadingly and confusingly entitled Read this first, deeply buried at or near the top of the topic list.
I forgot everything I read there! I guess I got busy with having a life and didn't store every article if a scotty Kilmer car pages information in my mind. I should probably prioritize that over dinner with my wife this week.
Once one knows where such information is kept deviously obscured and hidden it's not difficult to refer back to it when needed.
