I like things about each of these trucks, but ultimately want whichever will hold up the longest. The Maverick has essentially no transmission and a tried and true 4 banger, and the Tundra is a Toyota. Unfortunately, with turbos. But with an engine and transmission made in Japan.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Tundra, seems to be a safe choice, and the base SR has adaptive cruise. My ideal truck is just a Tacoma but I live in an area with frequent rush hour traffic and they don't sell a Tacoma with stop and go adaptive cruise. Toyota's refreshed models have that on all base trims and that's a big value add for me.
Thanks!
Stick to the new Tundra.
Time will tell. My money is on Toyota.
You might be interested in the fact that Ford has already recalled Maverick Hybrids, as they catch on fire. Not a good sign.
The Maverick has essentially no transmission
The Maverick has a transmission, Ford CVTs are the worst in the industry - they make Nissan look like Aisin or ZF 🤣
I remember a forum member had Ford replace multiple CVT transmissions on an older Ford Hybrid.
and a tried and true 4 banger
Is it? Ford called it Duratec but almsot all Ford non-turbo engines are called that,
is that engine a Kent? Sigma? Zeta? Modular? MZR? Cyclone? all of these were called "DuraTech" no info on what's this one.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Tundra, seems to be a safe choice
That powertrain has been around for 5 years on the Lexus LS500, but I'd still recommend waiting a bit more.
I can not call it a safe choice - it's a smaller gamble than a Maverik.
Ford Maverick hybrid or Toyota Tundra
One is a Ford Focus (C2 platform) without a boot, the other is a Toyota Sequoia (TNGA-F platform) without a boot.
Choosing between a Maverik and a Tundra two is like choosing between a Focus and a Sequoia, completely unrelated cars.
There's a 4 foot difference between the lengths of these cars, a 2500lbs weight difference.
It depends on what sized car do you need...
a car based on a Focus or a car based on a Sequoia?
You mentioned “That powertrain has been around for 5 years on the Lexus LS500, but I'd still recommend waiting a bit more.”
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How long do you recommend waiting?
@Daywalker
Probably another year to see if there's any obvious big issues with it.
Toyota does seem to have issues when "adapting" a powertrain from car to car (AZ, ZR, ZZ, ....)
Because the LS500 is a rare luxury car, I do not think that many, if any, owners have high millage and I'd assume virtually all of them were serviced well, so these 5 years don't really mean much...
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Also the Tundra/Sequoia electronics are mostly all-new and seem to be very complex,
That's another thing I'd personally wait a year or two to see how reliable they truly are.
True.
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Regarding your statement “Because the LS500 is a rare luxury car, I do not think that many, if any, owners have high millage and I'd assume virtually all of them were serviced well, so these 5 years don't really mean much...”
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Did the engine there (In LS500) have issues early on like in the Tundra? I don’t believe I read of any issues early on with the TTV6 engine in the LS.
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But I agree, long term verdict on that engine is unknown. It’s just bad when there’s issues early on (like in the Tundra). I always prefer to wait a few years whenever a new generation starts. Ideally, I prefer to buy the final year of a generation.
@DayWalker
Yeah, so far the indications are not positive, I wouldn't buy one.
There are a lot of testimonies of people having serious quality issues and some even with blown engines...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-5th-gen-2018-present/960349-2018-ls500-on-2nd-blown-motor.html
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I also wait a long time for a model to "mature" and sort out production and design issues,
but nowadays quality issues randomly pop-up because the manufacturers constantly change things and cut costs...
“There are a lot of testimonies of people having serious quality issues and some even with blown engines...
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-5th-gen-2018-present/960349-2018-ls500-on-2nd-blown-motor.html”
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That was a first year model year with that new engine, so I would be weary to get a 2018 LS. Hopefully, by 2022 it’s been sorted out.
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Also, forums tend to make bigger issues out of something. And who knows how the owner really took care of his/her vehicle. I wonder the true failure rate of those TTV6 and the number of warranty claims against that engine. Those are the stats I care about. Of course, no manufacturer will release those to the public.
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I am sure you can find examples of several engine failures from every make and model that have failed early on.
@DayWalker
Doing more research I found that Toyota has "upgraded" the 2021-up version, They turned what looked like a nightmare into a much more reasonable engine, probably in the name of cost cutting - everything was simplified.
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Redesigning the pistons, slightly reducing compression, rolling back from VVT-iE to regular VVT-i, reworked the engine mounts, they went from 2 throttles to one, from 2 intercoolers to one, consolidating the last part of the intake manifold into one piece instead of 3, doubling the amount of accessory belts, going for a deeper oil pan.
Also notably, the oil separator on these engine's is one of the biggest ones that I've seen.
( https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/19-09-10_faq_df_v6_eng.htm )
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I'm optimistic on this engine, I do think that it has a good chance at being decent,
But I also must admit that a big truck with a twin-turbo engine costing less than a Camry with a naturally aspirated V6 does sound "too good to be true" to me, either the Camry V6 is very overpriced or they have found a place to significantly cut costs on the Tundra...
I guess that only time will tell.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-issues-fire-risk-recall-160649770.html
https://autos.yahoo.com/ford-lightning-towing-test-shows-201500269.html
I, personally, would not be interested in ANYTHING made by Ford.
The Ford Maverick won't be nearly as reliable as older Ford vehicles in that size class. It's not a real pickup truck, as @Dan said. It's a car unibody that they chopped the rear end off of and put a dinky 4 foot bed on.
The Ford Ranger (1983-2011) is probably the closest comparable truck Ford ever made. They're not unibodies. They have an actual frame underneath the bodywork and can do real truck things, like hauling gravel and off-roading. Big truck guys deride them as "Tonka trucks", because they're little.
The Maverick will never, ever touch a Toyota Tundra for reliability, and probably won't touch the old Rangers either. They're made in Mexico and Ford deliberately priced them to be as cheap as possible. Those two things alone make me sprint like a Boston Marathon runner away from it. The old Rangers were made in New Jersey and Minnesota, if I remember right. There's a reason you still see them everywhere.
The drawback for the old Rangers were the transmissions in the automatics. Typical domestics problem source. Mine went 250k miles before it needed rebuilt. I highly doubt the CVT in that Maverick will go that far, especially if you use it as a truck.
No offense intended, but that’s a funny cross shop.
Such as it is, I don’t think you’ll regret buying a Tundra. They’ve got a few issues, though, so if you can wait a few months more, they’ll hopefully get most of the issues sorted.
Take a look at Tim Esterdahl at Pickup Truck Talk. His website and YouTube channel has extensive first hand reviews from a guy that knows all brands. He’s owned a Tundra for a few months now and has covered most of the major pluses and minuses.
@Dad2LM2 The other guy suggested the same. I fully understand the difference between the unibody Mav and the Tundra... it's that most of my real needs are met by the Maverick. But, Toyota reliability is a big deal. A big enough deal that I won't miss the 40MPG, nor maybe even the extra 20 grand.
Turning the key and having it start, is extremely important to me.
But on reliability, not having a traditional transmission, no starter, no alternator, no accessory belt, AC driven by the high voltage battery, no turbos... seems like the Maverick has a case against a twin-turbo monstrosity like what's in that Toyota. I felt it was a question worth raising at least, and not easily dismissed by me outright. I wanted to hear some opinions.
There are two possible trucks that I'd pick over both this Tundra and Maverick.
The Ford Lightning, which I have family that works at Ford, I told one of them, an F150 engineer, that if he can get me a Lightning I'll write the check for the full amount tomorrow. And the other truck I'd take over these is a RAV4 based pickup.
My first and most reliable vehicle was a 1988 1/2 Nissan 4x4 hardbody with some nice BFG All Terrain TAs on some Centerlines. Nissan isn't what they were back then, but I miss that truck. Toyota has held up over the decades on the reliability front in comparison.
If you're not worried about fuel mileage, then it's a no-brainer. Get the Tundra (but again, if you can, try to wait a few more months; Toyota continuously improves quality as they go through a model year, not just from one year to the next).
And family connections aside, just my opinion, I'd take a pass on the Lightning. You are right that the old Nissan "Hard bodies" were great little trucks that could run forever; and (I believe) they are appreciating in value. Can you imagine a Lightning appreciating in value (or even still running) 30 years from now? Like all EV's, they make sense right up until they don't.
By the way, I really wasn't putting you down for the cross shop. When I bought my 2014 Tundra, the last alternative I ruled out was a Subaru Crosstrek 😉
All good points, sounds like you're old enough to remember those Nissans. All my vehicles after that, GM, blew up on me or had major repairs. Worse yet, taking one in for recalls only to come back with a broken dash, two sets of keys (rekeyed my ignition, handed me 2 keys to use with my car from then on). I'm never taking anything in for recall work ever again. I'll just die in the car instead. They basically ruined my vehicle.
The value to a Lightning is you get a truck good for anything you'd do in county, but tow capacity of a half ton. Diesel is going to remain for interstate hauling. I know almost no one that does that though, yet everyone is prepared for it. I won't be doing much of that. I don't see it appreciating in 30 years either. Maybe with solid state batteries etc. But everything wears out, *even* gas engines. Eventually they'll be head and shoulders above gas and diesel. Today they're only better if most of your tasks are done within your local county or so.
My wife wanted a Crosstrek. We're looking at a VW ID.4 or Highlander hybrid for her.
The only thing about longterm EV value is that a lot of people said nasty things about Priuses and look at how those buyers came out of it. Looking pretty good all things considered. Anyone that bought them certainly didn't make a "mistake". Given that lesson, while I realize they're hybrids, I am withholding damning judgement on electrics for now. Overall, they've been pretty successful today. There's not as much negative press as you'd assume if it was all a big mistake. I feel like the Prius has overall been a pretty smart buy, and there's egg on the face of all the haters. Most everyone is just dead silent on the Prius subject, because they were wrong. Someone that bought an early Tesla Model 3 doesn't seem to have made a mistake. Driving right past gas stations while we're filling up! Then and now.
While I tend to agree with you, there is a scenario that plays out where a market is created for batteries and you can take a 30 year old Lightning and simply hook up a new solid state kit. With so few moving parts to maintain, who knows what the future holds. It will be somewhere in between the pessimistic viewpoint, and the optimistic viewpoint. I think it's inevitable though. I won't argue with people over it, I know Scotty isn't an electric fan but, as they say, I do believe the first cars were electric and the last ones will be too. We're on our way.